Guantanamo Bay, page
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Topic started on 18-6-2003 @ 07:49 AM by Peace
www1.iraqwar.ru...

this place needs to be burned down, i don't care for the Taliban, but some of the people detained are teachers and doctors, they need to be put on trial so the evidence against them can be evaluated by the courts. This sets a terrible example for the future.


reply posted on 18-6-2003 @ 01:28 PM by Peace
Originally posted by Pyros
Gee, I wonder how the Americans who were held hostage by the Iranians in their own emabssy for 444 days feel about this? Or maybe any of the American hostages held in Beyruit for YEARS by Palestinian and Lebanese lackeys of Arafat feel about this? (remeber Col. Higgins and CIA station chief Buckley) Or maybe some of the American airmen shot down and captured by the Soviets who were exiled into the Gulag never to be seen again? Or maybe the crew of the USS Pueblo who were captured by North Korean pirates and held hostage for 2 years feel about this? Or maybe......you get the picture?

These people are not in Gitmo because they are anti-American. They are there because they are terrorists or terrorist wannabes. Some who have been found to be innocent have already been released and have be repatriated back to their country of origin.

Funny how most of the countries who own these slimeballs havent been clammoring for their return. I wonder why?



But these are uncivilised countries, if they are POW's they should be held under the rules of the Geneva convention. The US calls them illegal combatants, some made up bull*hit.
Someone i know was beaten to death this morning by a mental patient at the hospital he worked at. The man who killed him has been detained and is on his way to court, but he will not be chained up and put in a cage, he will be back in a different mental hospital before the end of the week. This guy is more dangerous than any of your illegal combatants, and it treated much better.

i just think this place should be dismantled before we see more people heading over there.

Just so i'm sure, you think the American's who were held hostage in Iran are happy with the current situation in Guantanamo bay? i don't, they would more than likely be appaled that their own country would treat people so inhumanely.
You think that because some US citizens have been treated badly by other countries, it means that you should treat your foreign prisoners badly aswell?
Guantanamo bay will have gained al-qaeda more members than it currently houses.


reply posted on 19-6-2003 @ 05:50 AM by Peace
Originally posted by Seekerof
"But these are uncivilised countries,..."

Huh? You wanna define 'uncivilised' please?



"...if they are POW's they should be held under the rules of the Geneva convention."

They are being held under the rules of the Geneva Convention. They have access to medical needs, they have adequate waste disposal units (ie: toilets, toilet paper, showers, etc.), they are feed three times a day, they have actual beds/cots, blankets, and a pillow, etc.
Can you provide info. that any POW(s) are treated any better?



"The US calls them illegal combatants, some made up bull*hit."

The US can call it what it wants...POW's, illegal combatant's, really don't matter...it ALL adds up to the samething....POW!



"I just think this place should be dismantled before we see more people heading over there."

That (!) is a matter of opinion. I, on the other hand, find that Gitmo is quite a lovely place...for 'scum' like them...but hey, thats just my opinion. As to more heading that way.....only time will tell!


regards
seekerof







This is not how prisoners of war should be treated, that is worldwide opinion, not just mine, you people don't believe in being innocent until proven guilty?
You say that we DON'T KNOW what they have done, this is my point exactly, they should be tried in court of law. 17 illegal combatants have been beaten to death since arriving in Guantanamo Bay, you can be as stubborn as you like, but this is not the way things should be done.

Funny how someone should ask me to define uncivilized, it means uncultured, uneducated, inhumane, unsophisticated. Everything about Guantanamo Bay is uncivilized.


reply posted on 19-6-2003 @ 12:11 PM by Seekerof
Exactly my point JediMaster, well said.

As to why I asked the definition, and was so eloquently mocked by Peace in the process, for the reason that you improperely defined it! Example: 'inhuman'......I would say quite the opposite Peace. Are they not getting three meals a day? Do they not have a bed/blanket/ and pillow to sleep on? Do they not have a place to shower or bath? Do they not have access to medical facitlites and medical personnel?!?

Thats exactly why I asked for a definition.....to understand 'what' you meant by uncivilized.

And I don't recall anyone saying "we DONT KNOW what they have done." As JediMaster just posted, they were found to be aligned or in with actions deemed as 'terrorism' and with anyone in such a case, one can't take chances.

As to their innocence.....thats a mute point. They have been 'LINKED' to terrorist actions or organizations, but again mute. They are POW's, sweet and simple, and as concluded by the US Government.

Hey Peace, before spouting off "17 illegal combatants have been beaten to death"....first: since you are making the charges...provide the proof! As far as reading it as you have posted it....one can also interpret it as maybe those 17 were beaten to death by those other POW's in fights etc.

Stubborness is a good quality, especially in the case when people post opinions then to 'further' their opinion, thye further post charges and claims....yep, stubborness is quite useful. BAck your opinion up with some hard evidences other than your opinion or 'what you heard'.

Peace.

regards
seekeorf


reply posted on 19-6-2003 @ 02:19 PM by Peace
www.khilafah.com...

Guantanamo Bay prisoners complain of a year long torture by US military

uploaded 26 Mar 2003


Guantanamo Bay prisoners complain of unfair detention by US military:

A group of 18 Afghans released from a US detention centre at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Tuesday told how they were kept in tiny cages and subjected to interrogations for more than a year to prove their innocence.

In an impromptu press conference in Kabul, some of the 18 described how they suffered brutal treatment at the hands of Afghan jailers before being transferred to Guantanamo as suspected al-Qaeda or Taliban fighters.

The men, who returned to Afghanistan last week, were only the second batch of prisoners released from the controversial US detention centre, which holds hundreds captured during an international coalition campaign in Afghanistan.

Dressed in traditional Afghan shalwar kameez baggy trousers and overshirt, topped with US-issue blue sweatshirts, the heavily-bearded men said they were unfairly arrested and forced to suffer an arduous journey to regain freedom.

"I am innocent, I had nothing to do with the Taliban," said Salaiman Shah, who said he was working as a used car trader when he was seized by troops who accused him of fighting alongside the hardline militia.

He said he was initially detained in the notorious Sherberghan prison in northern Afghanistan by troops loyal to US-allied warlord General Abdul Rashid Dostam.

"At Sherberghan life was inhuman, all the prisoners had diarrhoea, some had tuberculosis, there was no food for days at a time and we were subjected to beatings and torture."

Shah said he and the others were transferred to US control at Kandahar air base in southern Afghanistan before being taken to Guantanamo, where he said treatment was harsh but better.

Fellow prisoner Murtaza, who like many Afghans has only one name, described being cooped up in cages in Guantanamo, sometimes hooded and handcuffed, during a seemingly interminable detention.

"Initially they told us it would take one month for the investigation and we would be released immediately if we were proven innocent.

"We spent two months in Sherberghan, five months in Kandahar, and more than one year in Guantanamo and finally now they release us because we are innocent.

"In Guantanamo we were in two-metre long cages. Some of us were interrogated 20 times, others 50 times, others 60. But the food was good and they did not beat us."

Murtaza, 30, admitted he was fighting with the Taliban when he was arrested in northern Kunduz province, but said he had been forced to join the militia.

A third prisoner, Bismillah, of central Uruzgan province, claimed he was mistakenly arrested because he is hard of hearing.

"At 2:00 am at night Americans came to our house and asked me to show them where the Taliban are. Since I am deaf, I couldn't understand what they said so they arrested me. It took them more than a year to realise I am innocent."

A spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai earlier this week said the 18 men had been cleared of links to the Taliban, which ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, and were free to return to their homes.

He said he was not aware of any complaints regarding their treatment or the duration of their captivity.

US authorities says Guantanamo Bay currently holds 660 detainees, many arrested in Afghanistan. It describes them as unlawful combatants who can be held indefinitely without trial.

The 18 prisoners were the first to be returned to Afghanistan since last October when three were sent home, two of them elderly.

Following their release the Afghan government said it was sending a delegation to Guantanamo to investigate conditions.

Source: Agence France Presse


reply posted on 19-6-2003 @ 05:07 PM by TigeriS
Originally posted by JediMaster
You can\'t take any chances. If they are linked to terroism or they did something that linked them to terroists you just can\'t ignore it. With terroism you can\'t take any chances, if you think they are a terroist and have a good reason the person should be jailed and questioned.


Of course, no doubt about that, and you said it your self IF they are linked, but so far we can not confirm nor deny that they have anything to do with terrorism or the attacks so we need an investigation right ? And why is it taking so long to get some real hard evidence against them ? That should be public so we all can see for our self why they are guilty. So far the official version of 9/11 is not very convincing is it ? Too many contradictions.

But anyway I don\'t know the real truth and I don\'t want to act as if I know what is going on in the world today, first I thought I had an idea but now I seriously doubt it.

By the way I\'m sorry TC. you see that\'s the reason I don\'t like to reply much. After reading my posts I get a feeling that I\'m so angry while I don\'t mean it that way. I just have questions that none can answer so far. So that is very frustrated some times. And english is not my best language to express my self.

I think one would understand me better in my own language. A translation may sound hostile while it\'s not meant that way. I just like peoples to find out the whole truth, not just a portion of it which can be easily manipulated. Most of the times peoples only believe what they want to hear unless the evidence is so strong.
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