Society is forced to be accepting of gays & transgenders.

Personally, I don't think anyone is expected to accept homosexuality, homosexuals, or any of the other associated topics you mentioned. No more than we're expected to accept the people we dislike, the people who have a differing opinon to us, or anyone else we'd happily see eat cow dung.
What IS expected, however, is that we accept that people who live their lives in a way that makes them happy have exactly the same rights as us, enjoy the same privileges and are as protected as us by law. Your opinion on who they choose to love is irrelevant. They are human beings and have the same inalienable rights as everybody else.

And as for the whole Christian slant, I remind you that Jesus (the person who all Christians profess to follow) told us everything we need to know to be good people, and good Christians. "Love the Lord God with all of your heart, and soul, and mind. Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no greater commandment than these."

a reply to: PeterHawkes

Yea.... And I bet you can dance around the bible's slavery versus too. I understand that God is against sexual immorality and homosexuality is apart of that.

Just read the verses though. The authors of the bible clearly encourage punishment and exile from normal society.

Homosexuality is open and accepting in western society now. However, if this was only some years ago, you could be put in prison for being one.

That is because of laws inspired by things like the bible. Without society embracing them, homosexuals are forced to sneak around and be exiles of society. If the bible still ruled the land, the homosexuals you talked to would either be in prison or married in a loveless marriage.

a reply to: Butterfinger

Just because your opinion on homosexuality or anything else is derived from the bible, doesn't mean it is not a judgement.

You can't say a judgement is not a judgement because its judgement came from the bible. Thats absurd.

Non-judgement is being neutral. You are not for or against something. You're being neutral.

a reply to: JackofBlades

The bible would be great if that is all it was about. Unfortunately, we have a book that has helped to control and supress the masses. Just stamp the "holy" word on it every century and it's the official truth.

Help to include religion in everyday words and sights. Dumb down education and the influence religions played. Then maybe the masses will forget how religion condemned and supressed science. How religion has diveded the masses and inspired wars.How we will sacrafice everything for religion, even our lives. Islamic terrorism, war against islam terrorism headed by a christian country. The list goes on and on.

Religion is deep rooted in society and thats why its barbaric absurd existance hasnt been thrown out from modern society. Humanity will never take the next step towards evolution with religion.

Religion is junk-food truth and it's disappointing to see so many conspiracy theorists blindly believe every word of it.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: celinem

I think you have rather missed the point.

The point is, that a human, any human, has a right to go about their business as they see fit, without being chastised or treated differently from anyone else, unless the behaviour they indulge in is criminal under current law, thereby causing them to abandon their liberty, and be incarcerated. As long as you have the right to walk down the street unmolested and without attracting prejudice (a right you most certainly have), then so must a gay or transgendered person.

It is also worth noting that it is not your place to decide whether behaviour not prohibited by law, is acceptable in general terms. The only choice you have any right to make in the matter, is whether or not you engage in that behaviour yourself. If you treat someone differently because of the colour of their skin, or the faith they hold, or their sexuality, or their gender, or identity thereof, then you are, whether you would mean to or not, dehumanising that individual, and no one living on the face of this earth has the right to decide another individuals personhood.

No matter what choices we make in life, we are all human beings, under one sun, one moon, living on the same earth, having more similarity than we do difference, even those of us who are at most variance with one another. I believe in Jesus Christ. Others believe in Allah, some believe that there is no God, others still are undecided. Some believe that the best economic model is capitalism, some believe the same of socialism, others still believe that organisation and structure of any kind is anathema to human existence, that by our nature we are too chaotic to safely and uniformly exist within social constructs.

However, the system in the developed world, requires that all persons be considered equal before the law, and that insists that they be treated as equal by all persons living under that system. If you would support the basic human rights afforded to a heterosexual person, then you cannot discriminate against homosexual people unless you find yourself at odds with the idea that human beings are equal before the law, before man, and if that is the case, then you have a very big problem.

You see, over the many, many millennia of mankinds existence, there have been times where human beings were turned against their fellows. By usurpation of faith by propagandists, by deceit and skullduggery ending in a frame up, by royal decree and by the hands of underground groups, the methodology is irrelevant. Each time this has happened, it has lead to massacre, chaos, bloodshed and mayhem. Each time, innocent persons were caught up and slain or maimed in the carnage. And each time this has occurred on any significant scale, it has been because one group of people saw fit to dehumanise and depersonalise another, for their own gain, for greed, or out of spite and fear of the Unknown.

This is our past, as the human race, boiled down to the highlights. Every one of the darkest chapters in human history, comes back to a group or individual claiming that their way, their people, or their faith was supreme amongst all others, that their dogma was more valuable than the lives and freedoms of people who failed to subscribe. Now, there are many in this world who still believe such things openly, make no effort to hide their supremacist tendencies behind veils of propriety and reason. They are terrorists, murderers, marauders, and these are the least of them, for there are others still who run countries from a position of actual governmental legitimacy, and yet allow intolerance to guide their way through the world, both as individuals and as nations.

Suffice to say, that there are countless methods of governance and philosophy which dictate from a position of overt, unhidden oppression. But fortunately for us, we do not live under such a system as exists in North Korea, or under the arch bastards of ISIS. We live in places where freedoms and rights, and particularly the right to be recognised as human beings, are guaranteed by the founding documents of our respective nations, safeguarded by further freedoms recognised over time by those whose task it has been to oversee the clean up after atrocity after atrocity, caused by intolerance and power coming into confluence.

The more there is resistance to freedom, the further back the shadow of intolerance must be beaten. That is the legacy that we inherited from our ancestors, the lesson we must learn from their example, their victories, and their failures.

So my question to you is this. Do you value your freedoms enough, that you would insist on those same freedoms being afforded to others, whether you agree with their lifestyle or not? Put another way, have you learned something from those who came before you, or have you failed to learn the lessons that history teaches us?

TrueBrit, I don't always agree with you, but your posts are always so eloquent and well written, wish I had half of your wisdom, and all of your filters.

Luv ya man.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

There are a few options:

1. The trans male has completed the physical transition and now has an appendage that works at a urinal.

2. This person could use one of the stalls instead of a urinal.

3. There are devices that women can use to pee standing up (I used one when I went wilderness camping and had to pee outside, and didn't want to get it all over myself). Unlikely to be used in a public bathroom, but possible.

Does that at least stop you from scratching?

I'm always scratching my head about something.

I could be mistaken on my terminology here, so feel free to correct me. When I refer to transgender I mean in reference to identity only. But yeah if you are transsexual or more specifically if you can pee standing up then well you meet the criteria to operate a urinal.

But if you are going into the men's washroom only to urinate in a stall then that makes slightly less sense. Men's washrooms have a limited number of stalls and I take my #2's seriously.

Like I said the bathrooms are more about functionality. Maybe lets rename them from men's and women's washrooms to "people who can pee standing up" and "people who can't" lol. Take gender out of the equation.

The men's washroom is a well oiled machine. I dont care who goes in there as long as they don't hold me up.

a reply to: celinem

You know it's Government agenda, because we are forced to accept them...while they wouldn't accept a Christian in a minute.

originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: JackofBlades

The bible would be great if that is all it was about. Unfortunately, we have a book that has helped to control and supress the masses. Just stamp the "holy" word on it every century and it's the official truth.

Help to include religion in everyday words and sights. Dumb down education and the influence religions played. Then maybe the masses will forget how religion condemned and supressed science. How religion has diveded the masses and inspired wars.How we will sacrafice everything for religion, even our lives. Islamic terrorism, war against islam terrorism headed by a christian country. The list goes on and on.

Religion is deep rooted in society and thats why its barbaric absurd existance hasnt been thrown out from modern society. Humanity will never take the next step towards evolution with religion.

Religion is junk-food truth and it's disappointing to see so many conspiracy theorists blindly believe every word of it.

No what we have is a book that was translated many times, edited, and misinterpreted. Under the guise of organized religion, the words have been twisted to the point that the whole thing fractured into the plethora of denominations we have today.

I seriously doubt the bible we have today reads anything like the original bible read to the people who it was written by.

I think there was a lot of meaning lost in translation.

There is an agenda to push it. As there is for most immoral stuff in this country. It don't take much to know who's behind it. All you need to do is open your eyes. It's in the movies news media tv it's everywhere and who controls this stuff? There is a certain race of people with lots of money that think white people are inferior. They're whole objective is to break us down. Christians like to support these people and think their allies. We also give them billions in aid. They've also infiltrated our government. Any clue yet? I'm not saying who outright because I'll get slandered.

a reply to: celinem

I don't think anyone should or is being forced to 'accept' anything. I think we are being reminded that all people share the same human and legal rights. That's really the only issue: Is there a separation of rights afforded to some but not others, or are the laws and rights for everyone. Seems like a fairly simple answer, at least to me.

a reply to: celinem

We are not just being forced to accept that it is ok, people are being forced to embrace such a way of life as being ok.

What many people don't seem to understand is that this does not make us hate people who are part of the LGBT community, but rather that we don't want to be forced to change our traditions, our values, and children's education which are trying to impose these ideas.

People can do whatever they want "in private", but forcing people to embrace LGBT ideas is not ok.

Just like:

Forcing people who do not agree with it to pay for abortions is not ok.

Forcing people to deny problems from illegal immigration is not ok.

Forcing to "change" traditional values, and even forcing churches to not only embrace same sex marriage, but forcing religious institutions to perform same sex marriage is not ok.

I am not saying attacking, or inciting violence against LGBT groups or anyone based on their belief is ok, because it is not. Just like it is not ok to insult or demean people who are part of the LGBT community. But forcing a way of life on everyone else is simply wrong.

Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to understand this, and instead jump in the bandwagon of labeling anyone and everyone as "extremists, racists, bigots, etc, etc" if you don't agree and don't want to embrace their way of life.

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: celinem

You know it's Government agenda, because we are forced to accept them...while they wouldn't accept a Christian in a minute.

Oh, there it is.

The comment making this topic all about how persecuted Christians are.

Welcome to every homosexual topic on the internet.

The prophecy has been fulfilled.

a reply to: celinem

true enough.

the irony of the term "gender fluidity" is that it seems to only flow towards being LGBT…there is no talk of flow towards being straight from being gay...

No one wants to talk about the therapies that have shown promise for people who do not want to be gay. Many gays are gay because they were abused as children, for example, and some therapies have shown up to 50% success rate with with flowing gays to straight…

Then there are the MANY testimonies on youtube of gays who have sincerely converted to Jesus Christ and flowed into being heterosexual…finding love for the opposite sex… having families… learning Agape.

according to my Christian faith, being heterosexual does not gain anyone eternal life… a sincere relationship with Jesus Christ does… anyone can come to the Lord and be transformed… we are supposed to try to treat everyone as made in the image of God, with love and respect… I think the reason God is causing this situation with LGBT is similar to why for some people there is a kind of "cool factor" in having a partner of the opposite color/race… it is God telling us that hatred towards each other is wrong…

a reply to: poncho1982


why not look at some of the science, history and scholarship:

youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...

yt: Chuck Missler - How We Got Our Bible
youtu.be...

yt: Lee Strobel - The Case for the Resurrection
www.youtube.com...
yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
www.youtube.com...
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
youtu.be...
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...

a reply to: blueman12

humans are perfectly capable of creating oppressive killing systems without God… we are corrupt and corrupt every system we make…

Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost

Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
Pol Pot - 2,397,0003
Rummel says: "Almost 170 million men, women and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed or killed in any other of a myriad of ways governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people. It is though our species has been devastated by a modern Black Plague. And indeed it has, but a plague of Power, not germs."4

The historical evidence is quite clear: Religion is not the #1 cause of war.

meanwhile, the truth is that Jesus Christ elevated all aspect of our nature: education for ALL, treatment of women and children, veneration of self-sacrifice and humility, etc etc…

and most of the greatest scientists have been aided by their Christian background:

“The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My mother taught me to seek all truth in the Bible.”
--Nikola Tesla

“(modern science) was born out of a Christian worldview.”
--J. Robert Oppenheimer “On Science an Culture”, Encounter, Oct. 1962

"My worldly faculties are slipping away day by day. Happy it is for all of us that the true good does not lie in them.
As they ebb, may they leave us as little children, trusting in the Father of Mercies and accepting His unspeakable gift.
I bow before Him who is Lord of all.”
--Michael Faraday, on his death bed, one of the greatest experimental philosophers, Doctorate from Oxford University, holding 97 unsought for distinctions who discovered Electricity

“Education is useless without the Bible.”
--Noah Webster, Webster’s Dictionary

etc etc

a reply to: celinem

I think this is more of an internal issue with yourself. Happy people are fine with equality and don't see it as "forced".

a reply to: blueman12

good example: slavery in the Bible was a means of someone with nothing, having something to barter with… you could sell yourself into work for a wife or bling… but the Bible is clear: slaves must be freed every 7 years and every 50 years all debts are forgiven…

the Jews were severely punished for not obeying the laws concerning slavery…

a reply to: celinem

Apologies I haven't read through this thread and I'm sure this point has been said many times.

I think there's a huge difference between supporting people and simply tolerating them/ not treating them differently.

For example, I would have thought a sex change operation or any kind of gender swapping behaviour would be an incredibly personal, introspection driven act which is done purely to reach personal contentment. Therefore to use such a thing as PR tool to gain huge amounts of attention, praise, money and fame would lead me to be extremely cynical of that person. Not that it (the use of it for these things) could easily be the bannister to help a person who is very insecure and going through an incredibly complex and monumental extreme event in their lives, the fame and adulation could be very addictive I'm sure.

So I'd say as long as you are talking about that individual as the person they are (i.e. things they say and do) and not merely letting their gender define them then everything is fine.

Maybe everyone will disagree with that though!

a reply to: celinem

If you aren't capable of naturally having a heart then, yeah, it will be forced on you. Enjoy.

a reply to: celinem

Welcome to the 21st century. You're right to rant falls in the same category. I don't want to listen to your bulls hit but here we are. Stop being so #ing sensitive.