Senate blocks gun measures offered in wake of Orlando shooting

a reply to: Liquesence

With all due respect, that means they would prevent you from purchasing a firearm. That is a RIGHT protected by the 2nd Amendment. Your right, in that scenario has just been stripped form you without due process. And due process is outlined as REQUIRED by other Constitutional amendments. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Constitution before asking the same question again.

a reply to: watchitburn

Two Republican proposals would have increased funding for the national background check system and created a judicial review process to keep a person on a terror watch list from buying a gun. Two Democratic measures would have expanded background checks to private gun sales and allowed the Justice Department to ban gun sales to suspected terrorists.

I don't understand why we as Americans wouldn't want people on Terror Watch Lists from owning a gun. Nowhere in this measure does it say "ban guns from everyday citizens." So, in essence, we're now fighting for a terrorists right to own a gun? More guns isn't the answer, more needs to be done in the Mental Health arena. Is it something in the food? Something in the water? That's what we need to fight for and that's where we need to look for answers; the causes for this behaviour....the answers to why....so that we can implement active solutions and not re-active responses by buying more guns every time something happens...my 2 cents

a reply to: lostbook

Make it required that to be put on that list in the first place, the feds need to go through a judicial review and due process. Anything less is a violation of the United States Constitution. The Senate Dems just voted that detail down today. Ask them why....

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: lostbook

Make it required that to be put on that list in the first place, the feds need to go through a judicial review and due process. Anything less is a violation of the United States Constitution. The Senate Dems just voted that detail down today. Ask them why....

I'm not denying anyone's right to own a gun if they want to. However, you can't have a gun with you everywhere you go; alert and ready to shoot at a moments notice all of the time. Who wants to live like that?

More guns isn't the answer. These mass casualty, gun events happen without rhyme or reason and you can't protect everywhere-all the time. We need to be pro-active and not re-active.

a reply to: lostbook

But, that was not your question, now was it? You said, "I don't understand why we as Americans wouldn't want people on Terror Watch Lists from owning a gun." I answered that so you would understand. That response is another deflection it seems to me.

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: lostbook

Make it required that to be put on that list in the first place, the feds need to go through a judicial review and due process. Anything less is a violation of the United States Constitution. The Senate Dems just voted that detail down today. Ask them why....

I'm not denying anyone's right to own a gun if they want to. However, you can't have a gun with you everywhere you go; alert and ready to shoot at a moments notice all of the time. Who wants to live like that?

More guns isn't the answer. These mass casualty, gun events happen without rhyme or reason and you can't protect everywhere-all the time. We need to be pro-active and not re-active.

by not requiring complete due process to be put on that list, and an equivalent process to be removed, yes, you are asking for every citizen to give up their rights at the whim of some desk jockey in the government. Laws are supposed to apply EQUALLY to every citizen....right? So, that means without due process, you could be added to that list, and all of a sudden your rights are now stripped. How do you fight it? Who put you on the list? Why were you put on the list? See, without due process, all those questions mean you are guilty and need to prove your innocence.

That is not how our judicial system is supposed to work under the constitution.

Why do seemingly intelligent people not actually UNDERSTAND that fact?????

isis just cheered, they don't have to use bombs over here, just buy guns

a reply to: syrinx high priest

They do already....where have you been? But, you need to pas the existing background checks, go through an FFL (when not a private sale). Yet, they still do it via straw buyers (illegal), black market (illegal). Do you honestly think that a law will stop someone intent on killing people? Seriously? They are very resourceful...the only ones hurt will be citizens that have done nothing wrong.

I say again, how can seemingly intelligent people not understand this simple fact that killers will kill, and not pay attention to laws, or "gun free zone" signs.

originally posted by: watchitburn
Good news for Americans

Even if it's a victory born out of partisan hackery and political divisiveness, I'll take it.

and the ineptitude of our legislatures to write Bills that make sense or that they throw in little extra's on top of the main topic so it has no chance to pass. 'Look we tried, we really did' but they Democrats Republicans don't get it and aren't doing what we want.

So I am not surprised that the knee jerked Bills were not approved.....I am actually happy. We need some really smart people to really look into this issue along with the NRA and our nations police forces before we start making any changes on the whim. However, I do feel if you are on a terrorist watch list or no fly list, you should not be allowed to buy any type of fire arm until they are fully vetted and are given a green light by the FBI.

a reply to: thenightisours

However, I do feel if you are on a terrorist watch list or no fly list, you should not be allowed to buy any type of fire arm until they are fully vetted and are given a green light by the FBI.

As long as due process was followed to get on that list, right? Otherwise, it is wholly unconstitutional....right?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: watchitburn

I know I wrote my Congressman and both of my Senators in advance of this vote. I reminded them that party doesn't matter to me when it comes to my gun rights. I won't vote for ANYONE that compromises on the 2nd Amendment. I am guessing I wasn't the only one to write them.

Absolutely, I e-mailed Tammy Baldwin and Ron Johnson, Wisconsin's senators.......No more gun laws !!

a reply to: Krakatoa

With all due respect, I'm familiar with the constitution, the 2nd amendment, and due process.

You still have the right to purchase, possess, and bear arms (unless a lawful background check that looks at your criminal history deems otherwise). Tell me again, how these measures infringe on your 2nd amendment rights.

You can't because they don't.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Krakatoa

With all due respect, I'm familiar with the constitution, the 2nd amendment, and due process.

You still have the right to purchase, possess, and bear arms (unless a lawful background check deems otherwise). Tell me again, how these measures infringe on your 2nd amendment rights.

You can't because they don't.

Let me ask you a question. Does it require due process to be put on one of these "watch lists" (pick one)?

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
isis just cheered, they don't have to use bombs over here, just buy guns

Not if Obama would untie the hands of those investigating the Islamic terrorists. Just look at Mateen, who was on and off multiple watch lists, no-fly lists , was vetted twice for his job and for the state of Florida and then turned in to the FBI when trying to purchase body armor and bulk ammo.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Quoting myself:

I do know that *some* people are put on watch lists for arbitrary reasons.

I also know that many people are put on watch lists for damn good reasons.

And asking, again:

anyone on a watch list should be able to buy any weapon unless they have had that right denied due to due process, even if they are a suspected terrorist?

Keyword: anyone.

How does that infringe on your 2nd amendment right?

When your right to due process is infringed, then all your rights have been infringed. There, that should answer all your questions. IF it still doesn't then you might want to drop your head on a rock

a reply to: Krakatoa

No.

Let me ask you a question: Has any 2nd amendment right of yours been stripped because of this?

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Quoting myself:

I do know that *some* people are put on watch lists for arbitrary reasons.

I also know that many people are put on watch lists for damn good reasons.

And asking, again:

anyone on a watch list should be able to buy any weapon unless they have had that right denied due to due process, even if they are a suspected terrorist?

Keyword: anyone.

How does that infringe on your 2nd amendment right?

When your right to due process is infringed, then all your rights have been infringed. There, that should answer all your questions. IF it still doesn't then you might want to drop your head on a rock

Has your right to due process been infringed?

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Krakatoa

No.

Let me ask you a question: Has any 2nd amendment right of yours been stripped because of this?

Correct, it does not require due process to get on these lists. Now, to say that if you are on that list you should be prevented for purchasing a firearm means that now your 2nd amendment right can been stripped from you without due process. You cannot have it both ways.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Krakatoa

No.

Let me ask you a question: Has any 2nd amendment right of yours been stripped because of this?

Correct, it does not require due process to get on these lists. Now, to say that if you are on that list you should be prevented for purchasing a firearm means that now your 2nd amendment right can been stripped from you without due process. You cannot have it both ways.

Have your 2nd amendment rights been stripped because of this?

So Republicans and most of ATS think it's fine for terrorists to buy weapons in America?

That's what I'm hearing here and its disgusting you people are so immature but then you always lie about caring about human lives.