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Sam Harris adds moral clarity to the attack in Orlando and Islam

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posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

can you explain to me how Mexican Drug Cartels = Christianity in the same way that extremist Islamic terrorism = Islam?

Like, I'm sorry, but you don't make any sense. You claim "many" of these drug cartel members have "crosses on their necks" and "tattoos of Jesus on their bodies." How many is "many?" Do you have a source to verify this?

Can you provide me with a source that explains how Mexican drug cartels are killing people and conducting crime in the name of Jesus and God the Father? Can you provide a source that explains why Mexican drug cartels being "Christian" means we should fear Christianity? That they're anything more than "Christian" culturally, since Mexico is primarily Christian, and that they're more "Christian" than all of the apparent, automatically-assumed "Christians" in the USA who commit crimes?

These two things are in no way alike. But you have a blatant history of anti-Christian views, you're never shy about it, so this lack of discernment about the differences between Mexican drug cartels and extremist Islamic terrorism is totally unsurprising to me.




posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Who is ignoring it? Trump wants to build a wall and control immigration, from both the southern border and the "refugee" crisis. But of course, saying that is also racist. So by the left definition of the word racist, YOU are now a racist. You called all Mexicans murderers and rapists. That's sooooo racist! Let's go riot at a Trump protest and assault some innocent racists!!



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 02:16 AM
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a reply to: TechniXcality

EVERY THREAD. EVERY SINGLE THREAD.

The same damn thing. People IMMEDIATELY calling people racist. I swear people are so far brainwashed it is scary. All you see now is people calling others racist, when nothing racist happened. It blows my mind. It actually still surprises me even though I see it every day.

How can people be so stupid and so easily brainwashed?



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

You wouldn't last five seconds with either of them. I will debate you any day of the week and destroy you. Intellectual lightweights, please.

A Hillary Clinton supporter calling someone an intellectual lightweight.

THAT IS THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 02:42 AM
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I'm in India now, where terrorist attacks towards Hindus is a regular thing. I got to meet a Hindu saint who was talking about how he and his colleagues supported Trump because of his stance on Muslims. I also asked a few others what they thought of Muslims, and many said "They like to kill people." Are these Indians 'racist' too? Is there any merit to their opinions? They are completely outside the western propaganda machine and still have this opinion, so does that make it legitimate? No one dislikes Muslims. Many dislike Islam, and for good reason. At this point to say that that belief system is not oppressive and poisonous really seems like denial to me.



Also, when was the last time a Mexican drug cartel terrorized/mass-murdered American citizens on American soil?
edit on 22-6-2016 by humanityrising because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising


Hey humanityrising its great to hear from you and your views all the way from India, where Muslims have massacred millions of Hindus in the past and I`ve heard they still attack you guys on occasion from Pakistan ( is this true to your knowledge?)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 03:54 AM
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a reply to: gps777

About 3-4 attacks per year. The conflict with Pakistani extremists is ongoing and there are places in Kashmir that you just don't go to.

I mean to point out and cannot stress enough that all these people are the same race, so we're not dealing with racism or xenophobia when the average Hindu says Muslims like to kill people.

I'm certainly not racist or xenophobic, but I'm 100% with Sam Harris on this; if you think believing that the Koran is the word of God is harmless you're being naive.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 04:05 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising


Yep Absolutely.


Thanks for sharing the info.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: odzeandennz

Why should I have to do your homework for you? The terrorism by drug cartels is very real, if you choose to ignore it then I'd say you're being willfully ignorant. There are stories everyday of Mexican cartels killing families and chopping people up over drugs. And yes, many of those Mexican terrorists wear crosses around their necks and have tattoos of Jesus all over their bodies

Just to give you a sample, here's a STORY from just a few days ago. But you're right, it's not happening, they didn't really torture and kill 150 people.


Sorry, cartels have always been around. Usually they are sticking to their own with crime. Sometimes they get out of control and might get carried away. Yet I sincerely doubt that they get further than running one city. The reason for that is that there is no premise of a 'beautiful and peaceful gangster organisiation' with millions of followers worldwide.
There are no holy crime books that people are supposed to adhere to and teach their children at school or in crime temples.

See where I am going with this?

Needless to say that your comparison is really totally inappropriate, as one has nothing to do with the other apart from the violence. But the rest is as different as can be, in all aspects. Desperate argument is desperate...



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 05:01 AM
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a reply to: Hecate666

Balls.

You obviously know nothing of the cartels.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: gps777


We are not your enemy Klassified and it would surprise you what we fight for, not that anything in this world could stop anyway, but go ahead if that's your mission to try.

I spent decades of my life as a preaching, teaching, witnessing Christian, who has read and studied the bible from cover to cover more times than I can remember at this point. I've also served as a deacon/elder. Whether you believe any of that is up to you. I have been accused of fabricating it, because surely I could never have been such a devout Christian, and now be so anti-Christian and religion. Whatever the case, I know Christianity inside out.

You're right. The average Christian is not my enemy, but Christianity is. In fact, all of the Abrahamic religions are. They are a detriment to our species, and have been so for thousands of years. They make people delusional, dangerous, and anti-human. For any of the three to criticize the other two as false, or deceived by "Satan" is not only hypocritical, but an irony of a very special kind.

There may indeed be a "God", but I can Promise you, there isn't one religion on earth that is representative of that entity. The Abrahamic god is a concept, a human construct, not a real entity. I leave you with a quote...


“I'll tell you what you did with Atheists for about 1500 years. You outlawed them from the universities or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy. You dehumanised them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, imprisoned them, stabbed them, disembowelled them, hanged them, burnt them alive. And you have nerve enough to complain to me that I laugh at you.” ― Madalyn Murray O'Hair



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: gps777

I spent decades of my life as a preaching, teaching, witnessing Christian, who has read and studied the bible from cover to cover more times than I can remember at this point.
...
There may indeed be a "God", but I can Promise you, there isn't one religion on earth that is representative of that entity.


What were you looking to find in the Bible?

If you were God, what would you change in the world?

What would your religion look like?

The only verse in the bible you need right now to read, to understand all that you missed before is this:

"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: " -- KJV, 1 Peter 1:24

The rest of the book is about past dramas, teaching stories, pronouncements of things to come. But, the "flesh" is not the thing that is saved, at the end of the day.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: AMPTAH
The bible has some good metaphysical and spiritual concepts sprinkled in with a lot of pseudo-history and mythology. No one should ever live their life by it, or teach it to their children as fact.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: AMPTAH
The bible has some good metaphysical and spiritual concepts sprinkled in with a lot of pseudo-history and mythology. No one should ever live their life by it, or teach it to their children as fact.


Well, there's certainly a view that religion should not be taught to young people. They aren't mature enough to grasp the meanings. The Jewish Rabbis, for example, think that certain things like mystical Kabalah, shouldn't even be taught to adults, much less young people, until that person has developed the spiritual maturity on his own to deal with the subject.

Even the bible instructs, not to teach religion to the unprepared:

"To give subtlety to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. " -- KJV, Proverbs 1:4

Some people are considered too "simple" and must be dealth with in "subtley".

"A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:" -- KJV, Proverbs 1:5

But, those that are wise, will increase learning. But, ...

" To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings." -- KJV, Proverbs 1:6

Yet, there are "dark sayings" within the verses, that requires even more wisdom to grasp.

So, the indication is that the Bible has a whole "hierarchy" of wisdom packed into the text, and people of different "levels" of understanding will grasp the knowledge differently.

But, who can say when any person is ready to receive a particular message in the scriptures?

How can we judge another person, to say, that person isn't smart enough to understand?

We can't see into the head of the person, and read his mind.

The best we can do, as men, is not make any assumptions about other people's abilities, and simply say what we think, let it fall on the ears, and be accepted or rejected according to each mental perception that receives it.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified

Whether you believe any of that is up to you. I have been accused of fabricating it, because surely I could never have been such a devout Christian, and now be so anti-Christian and religion. Whatever the case, I know Christianity inside out.


Same here, but not as deeply involved as you.

Before graduating high school, looking for a career, I considered ministry. If I was going to teach something, I wanted to know what was really true. So, I started researching Jesus. Not religion, but the facts the myth was built around. Anyone with an open mind, will find the "real Jesus" and the "myth Jesus" are not even close.

The "Jesus message" does not require Jesus, God, or religion.

Islam is the current "bad guy" only because its in our timeline. History doesn't absolve any religious belief.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: Annee


History doesn't absolve any religious belief.

I like that. I may have to borrow it sometime.



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Annee


History doesn't absolve any religious belief.

I like that. I may have to borrow it sometime.


Be my guest


"Out of sight, out of mind" --- is not reality. What's happening at the moment, is only reality in that moment.

I used to watch a lot of Discovery, and I love LINK TV. But, I would watch with "laptop in hand" and do follow up research on any story/documentary. Only so much can be put in a 30/60 minute film.

America is in a protective bubble, mostly because of geographic location. We were inaccessible. We had minimal "tribal" warring compared to the land locked continents of Europe, Asia, Africa.

I had my life planned out. Was gonna join the Navy, then get a teaching/nursing degree, join the Peace Corp, etc. But, odd medical issues got in the way.

Why some think we Americans are all squeaking clean is beyond me. There are places in America you just don't go, not if you have any brains at all. Like areas around New Orleans. Voodoo is still alive and well. Even Hawaii, you wander into the wrong area, you just might never come out.

I'm a "People are People" person when it comes to God belief. Any of them. People make the religion, the religion does not make the people.

Same with atheism. An atheist should know that he/she is actually agnostic, agnostic atheist. God can not be proven or dis-proven. Atheist is not anti-God or anti-religion. Atheism is Lack of Belief in a God - - nothing more, nothing left. Lack of belief is not anti-belief.

If an atheist is anti-God or anti-religion - - - - that is his/her personal philosophy beyond atheism.

In other words, an atheist can be just as irresponsible in how he/she puts forth their lack of belief and personal philosophy - - - just as a religious person needs to be responsible for what they put forth, how they interpret their belief, etc.

Sam Harris interesting. As I said earlier, you'd need to learn about the man before understanding any position he takes.

edit on 22-6-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2016 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: tikbalang

A man who is actually fighting against the racists and bigots, is called the racist and bigot, this is a very strange clown world we have evolved into, quite strange.

He becomes a racist and a bigot when he marginalizes ALL Muslims. Proving he's a religion hater
The Kurds, who are moderate Muslims, for example are fighting and dying against the radicals.
The Syrians, moderate Muslims, are fighting and dying as he only runs his big mouth
that’s what we mean

Who is "WE". What about the Catholics, Protestants, Hindi, Shinto, Taoist, Buddhists that are disavowed a voice because they are not active killer terrorist organizations? Communist ideology a trussed up TURKEY.
edit on 22-6-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 10:49 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: gps777


I spent decades of my life as a preaching, teaching, witnessing Christian, who has read and studied the bible from cover to cover more times than I can remember at this point. I've also served as a deacon/elder. Whether you believe any of that is up to you. I have been accused of fabricating it, because surely I could never have been such a devout Christian, and now be so anti-Christian and religion. Whatever the case, I know Christianity inside out.

I highly doubt you knew Christ, simply because for what and who Jesus was and said and did, I find it impossible you could know and diss but who knows really I could be wrong. I actually had not heard what a Deacon is and had to look it up, I`m still unaware of what Church or belief that comes from.



You're right. The average Christian is not my enemy, but Christianity is. In fact, all of the Abrahamic religions are. They are a detriment to our species, and have been so for thousands of years. They make people delusional, dangerous, and anti-human. For any of the three to criticize the other two as false, or deceived by "Satan" is not only hypocritical, but an irony of a very special kind.

In this one paragraph you admit the average Christian isn`t your enemy, but what is important is who Christ is why He died for us and conquered death, who showed us the ultimate love for all our sakes. Yet Christianity as a whole is your enemy?.
It shows ill will, and Jesus/God is in the business of fixing wills that are ill.



There may indeed be a "God", but I can Promise you, there isn't one religion on earth that is representative of that entity. The Abrahamic god is a concept, a human construct, not a real entity. I leave you with a quote...


“I'll tell you what you did with Atheists for about 1500 years. You outlawed them from the universities or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy. You dehumanised them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, imprisoned them, stabbed them, disembowelled them, hanged them, burnt them alive. And you have nerve enough to complain to me that I laugh at you.” ― Madalyn Murray O'Hair


I have no idea who did these atrocities Madalyn is speaking of, but can assure you it was not someone following Christs words and example.

Klassified its good that you say that you know the Bible for at least to be able to recognise these quotes in this video.

only 7 minutes


What are the chances of this? pure fabrication? written 600 and some up to 900 years after Christ by Mohamad and his followers accounts of him.

Remember what Satan tempted Christ with, offering Christ the world if He bowed down to him.

Now look at Islam and its ultimate goal, to encompass the whole global where everyone is forced in submission by sword to worship their god Allah.

Islam: What You Need to Know by Usama Dakdok, is one of the best I`ve seen on Islam and what's going on with America. He is Christian and not a wishy washy Christian he knows first hand Islam and speaks Arabic, he`s also from Egypt. The whole of America should be watching this and similar video`s.

about 2 hours


Your government your schools your financial system etc have all been compromised by this Satanic cult.your constitution means nothing in Islam. Its a constitution all of its self.

Christians need to start standing up or its going to be Americastan and globalstan with many many more souls killed and lost. Things are heating it up more and more daily.
edit on 23-6-2016 by gps777 because: bb code



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: gps777


I highly doubt you knew Christ, simply because for what and who Jesus was and said and did, I find it impossible you could know and diss but who knows really I could be wrong.

Some things never change, do they? Of course you highly doubt it, because the moment you read my post, cognitive dissonance, denial, and your indoctrination kicked in. You don't think I used to react the same way when someone told me they left Christianity because it's a lie and a delusion? Lol. You bet I did. They couldn't have known Jesus, or they would never be anything but Christian.


I actually had not heard what a Deacon is and had to look it up, I`m still unaware of what Church or belief that comes from.

You're a bible reading Christian, and you don't know the NT verses relating to deacons/elders in the church(1Tim, Eph, Tit, Heb)? Someone needs to read their bible more.


In this one paragraph you admit the average Christian isn`t your enemy, but what is important is who Christ is why He died for us and conquered death, who showed us the ultimate love for all our sakes. Yet Christianity as a whole is your enemy?. It shows ill will, and Jesus/God is in the business of fixing wills that are ill.

I am well acquainted with biblical mythology, and what the "Christ" symbolized and accomplished by his life, death, and resurrection. Romans and Hebrews are good epistles for that, as long as you have some familiarity with the OT... Christianity is the enemy of modern civilization, as is Judaism and Islam. They are anti-human, oppressive, excluvist, and bigoted. In Christianity and Islam's case, they want to assimilate the world, and make everyone else "twice the child of hell" as they are.
Individual Christians are not my enemy. People with terminal disease or severe mental disorders are not my enemy either, but it doesn't keep me from hating the disease or mental illness that made them sick.


I have no idea who did these atrocities Madalyn is speaking of, but can assure you it was not someone following Christs words and example.

A little brushing up on church history would likely help. Christ's words and example? It is Christ's words they were/are following. Just not his example.


Christians need to start standing up or its going to be Americastan and globalstan with many many more souls killed and lost. Things are heating it up more and more daily.

Why do Christians need to stand up? Jesus himself, as well as other biblical writers said you would be persecuted and murdered, and that you should "rejoice, and be glad"(Matt 5). He also said that if any defense was needed, HE would give you the words to say, when you need them(Matt 10). What he did not say is that you would be spared any more than those before you.

As to the rest of your post. Islam is no less an enemy of civilization and humanity that the other Abrahamic religions are.




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