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Sam Harris adds moral clarity to the attack in Orlando and Islam

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posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:10 PM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Willtell

willtell please go be an idiot somewhere else and not in this thread, thank you


If you think so them be a man and debate for them rather than hurl insults because you can’t intellectually deal with me

beyond that Ill post when and where I want to



You mean like -

1. "I'd give 1000 bucks to debate any of them and would devour these light weight intellectual midgets "

2. "Harris is Trump with a fake intellectual face"

3. "And Maher is Trump with a laughing face"

4."Still ugly bigotry and ignorance behind the facades"

almost every part of your last statement was an insult and ad hom against these men, and yet you will cry foul on being asked to be an idiot somewhere else? yes you are behaving like an idiot, and I have pointed out how, and that's fine if you will not move around, just don't expect to get away with it here.



Since when do you hold them so precious that you find it necessary to defend them by insulting me?

It’s a FACT that they are haters of ALL religion

Their religious bigots

They admit it more or less

MANY people have called them out as such, other than I




posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Since you were so hastily interested in commenting on hyperbole, taking it literally, I would appreciate you pay the 1000 dollars for the sake of posterity

It’s all a distraction from the lack of the ability to face head on my points

imho



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: tikbalang

A man who is actually fighting against the racists and bigots, is called the racist and bigot, this is a very strange clown world we have evolved into, quite strange.


He becomes a racist and a bigot when he marginalizes ALL Muslims. Proving he's a religion hater

The Kurds, who are moderate Muslims, for example are fighting and dying against the radicals.

The Syrians, moderate Muslims, are fighting and dying as he only runs his big mouth


that’s what we mean



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:25 PM
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Alright.

Who need a 1,000 bucks?

I'm an evil 1%er.








posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:28 PM
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Bring Sam Harris here

Ill intellectually crush him!

Bring your hero here to debate me

Ill send him running home with his tale between his legs

He is a light weight

So is his friend Dawkins and Bill Maher, who has the intellectual capacity of a 4th grader

bring em on!

or anybody here
come on debate

make your point



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:31 PM
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Why doesn't ATS have a debate forum?

This would be fun!



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:32 PM
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Why should I respect a person who demonizes millions of innocent people just because there are lunatics in their religion?

Then we should demonize ALL of ancient Catholicism

Demonize all the priests who didn’t rape the kids

Where’s the logic in this mans ideas?

Where’s his intellectual consistency?

case closed



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:33 PM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: WombRaider69

It's funny how you changed it to a non radical form of Islam instead of Islamism, which you originally had it, and yet you leave the sarcasm about you having must of been confused, yes you were confused, that's factual, and proven by my correction and your subsequent change, so you should also edit out the sarcasm about your confusion because in reality its just a self mockery by leaving it up. With that said, of course a non radical form of Islam exists, but that form is quite narrow, staggering numbers of literalists, and Salafists, and Wahhabists, and Islamists exist and conservative Muslims. that's the problem and that's who we are talking about and to deflect to the guys who are pure Quranist or who are secular is not honest because WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM.


Actually moderate muslims run intreference for the extremists either intentional or unintentuinally. See when we are attacked by a Muslim extremist we have more rate groups like cair. Not going to argue if you believe they are moderate. But these groups and mosques immediately say we'll he wasn't a true muslim or he doesn't represent all muslims and the issue becomes about islamaphobia, instead of how a radical with radical beliefs killed people.

Moderate muslims create a safe space if you will for radicals to hide. Let's face it every mosque in th country will have someone that agrees say Isis is the true interpretation of the religion. And sadly it only takes 1 person to kill alot of people if they choose. So to prevent this where do we look well comon sense would sayy mosques. Shouldn't expect to find radical muslims in a Baptist church. So when muslims scream about racism it's not by the way. All they do is create safe zones for radical islam to flourish.

The simple solution if they want to stop the scrutiny to there community police thyself. Instead they have chosen to just further confuse the issue in an I'll fated attempt to protect thier religion. But as this continues there will be a backlash. And God help us when it gets there. Time for everyone to agree radical islam is a problem stop trying to use smoke screens and let's deal with it.



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

except Sam Harris explicitly defends the Kurds and non Islamists. Really strange, you need to listen to what this man says, when you label him a racist and a bigot you make yourself look like an idiot, when you say you could challenge his intellectual idea's you also once again play the jester role, i'm sorry , you guys spewing this crap do not listen to what this man says, and i implore you to find a racist or bigoted ideological position that Sam Harris espouses.



Sam Harris




Harris: We’ll get into all of those things. And I’m really looking forward to this discussion. But I should clarify this notion that I’m an “enemy of Islam.” Granted, I’ve not always been as careful as I now am when speaking on this topic, so I’ve earned the label. One could certainly say that as a vocal atheist, I’m an enemy of all religion. So, in that sense, I’m an enemy of Islam too. But for the purposes of a conversation like this, I’m actually an enemy of “Islamism,” not Islam per se. Islamism, as you know, is the desire on the part of a minority of Muslims to impose their religion on the rest of society (and jihadis are the minority of Islamists who attempt to do so by force). Anyone who’s not an Islamist himself must be an enemy of that project, whether he thinks about these things or not.

The distinction between Islam and Islamism is important. I’ve just written a short book with the Muslim reformer Maajid Nawaz, Islam and the Future of Tolerance (Harvard University Press, June 2015). When talking to Maajid, my primary goal wasn’t to win the fight against Islam in favor of unbelief. Rather, it was to honestly discuss the problem of Islamism and to find some way of addressing it. Of course, I had a few critical things to say about mainstream Islam too, but I’m under no illusions that our near-term objective is to persuade 1.6 billion Muslims to give up their religion and declare themselves atheists.



now quit acting like a igmo and beating that tired drum the left beats about racists and bigots.



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

All those Muslim Kurds dying and all those Syrian Muslim boys being slaughtered by ISIS so could relax in your warm living room espousing what I would call nonsense.

Of course you know so many Muslims and have been to so many Mosques you know what you’re talking about…



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Willtell

except Sam Harris explicitly defends the Kurds and non Islamists. Really strange, you need to listen to what this man says, when you label him a racist and a bigot you make yourself look like an idiot, when you say you could challenge his intellectual idea's you also once again play the jester role, i'm sorry , you guys spewing this crap do not listen to what this man says, and i implore you to find a racist or bigoted ideological position that Sam Harris espouses.



Sam Harris





Harris: We’ll get into all of those things. And I’m really looking forward to this discussion. But I should clarify this notion that I’m an “enemy of Islam.” Granted, I’ve not always been as careful as I now am when speaking on this topic, so I’ve earned the label. One could certainly say that as a vocal atheist, I’m an enemy of all religion. So, in that sense, I’m an enemy of Islam too. But for the purposes of a conversation like this, I’m actually an enemy of “Islamism,” not Islam per se. Islamism, as you know, is the desire on the part of a minority of Muslims to impose their religion on the rest of society (and jihadis are the minority of Islamists who attempt to do so by force). Anyone who’s not an Islamist himself must be an enemy of that project, whether he thinks about these things or not.

The distinction between Islam and Islamism is important. I’ve just written a short book with the Muslim reformer Maajid Nawaz, Islam and the Future of Tolerance (Harvard University Press, June 2015). When talking to Maajid, my primary goal wasn’t to win the fight against Islam in favor of unbelief. Rather, it was to honestly discuss the problem of Islamism and to find some way of addressing it. Of course, I had a few critical things to say about mainstream Islam too, but I’m under no illusions that our near-term objective is to persuade 1.6 billion Muslims to give up their religion and declare themselves atheists.



now quit acting like a igmo and beating that tired drum the left beats about racists and bigots.



Points:

I’ve been listening to Sam Harris for 10 years. I think I know more about him than you do

Harris' statement


One could certainly say that as a vocal atheist, I’m an enemy of all religion. So, in that sense, I’m an enemy of Islam too.


With all due respect I don’t think you understand the nuances of Sam Harris, and therefore wouldn’t able to explain to you clearly a lucid enough explanation that might enlighten you and others.

Sam Harris has said what amounts to fascist statements about Muslims and other religious people

And I didn’t label him a racist. .

If I did it was an accident.

I labeled him a bigot….Its a difference

A bigot against religious people. And not only Muslims, btw.


If Sam Harris likes the Kurds that’s nice of him BUT Sam Harris expects the Muslim world to be what his delusions think they should be.

Sure there needs to be reform but in their own way and in their own time

Half of them are trying to just survive



edit on 20-6-2016 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2016 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 10:04 PM
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I’m a man of mercy, Ill leave you folks to your thread in peace


Just remember I wasn’t the guy hurling insults at the posters here


You feel bad that I insulted Harris

How do you think Muslims feel when dam near every day people here call what the hold dear and holy all kinds of calumnious slanders

Or even Christians who have to hear all kind of blasphemous stuff about Jesus Christ

Nobody’s complaining because I always am able to ably defend them against the slanders head up


That’s what makes America great

WillTell

the truth!



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 10:13 PM
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mission accomplished. this back and forth was the intention of this thread the moment it was created.
or was a civil and intellectual debate the intention all along...



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 10:37 PM
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This is the 3rd or 4th forum that this video has popped up on.

I'm beginning to think its a conspiracy... oh wait!



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 10:49 PM
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a reply to: gladtobehere

After watching your posting over the years my friend, I think we would be hard pressed to find something you didn't think was a conspiracy.



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 11:35 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
Why doesn't ATS have a debate forum?

This would be fun!


It does, but it's more or less dead.



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

I'm not a huge fan of Sam Harris either, but i do have to give him credit for considering the differences between Islam and Islamism - even to the point of identifying the different groups which make up the latter. It's an important distinction, and one which many do not even address in their critiques.



posted on Jun, 20 2016 @ 11:41 PM
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I've found Harris is one of those people that you have to study him first, before you can fully understand what he's saying.

Definitely not someone you can take what he says at face value.

You have to know the root of his thinking.



posted on Jun, 21 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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Some good laughs.

Appreciate it Will.



posted on Jun, 21 2016 @ 02:55 AM
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EXCELLENT. BEARS REPEATING WITH EMPHASIS.

IT IS SOOOO REFRESHING to listen to someone who has not been sooooooooo lobotomized by the MSM and the oligarchy's political stooges across the planet on this topic.


originally posted by: TechniXcality

This is a great speech and I think it's worth listening to, if the left doesn't want the masses who otherwise wouldn't turn to the far right or support nationalism, the left must address this issue in the proper context, otherwise expect more far right nationalism to rise (throughout Europe and America). It is unsettling that Donald Trump has been the only candidate speaking about this WAR in it's proper context.
Here are some of the points he makes in the video.

1. (sadly and not preferred) Trump is the only candidate speaking about radical Islam in the proper context, and he did it in one sentence in his speech, " America must unite the whole civilized world, in the fight against Islamic terrorism" .

2. He goes on to say, Do you think there is a non radical form of Islamism or jihadism, if so then you are confused, would someone speak about the "moderate Nazis", in fact in his video he shows that people did during that time.

3. President Obama says," ISIL is not religious, that their perverting a great religion; they are distorting a great religion" - if we must talk this way about a religion with the fear that otherwise we are going to produces multitudes of radicals, and that the religion needs to be defended against the west. Then by definition something is very wrong with that religion.

4. the term Islamophobia is an obfuscation meant to cause confusion, a term of propaganda meant to stifle a conversation about the need for reform within Islam (reform equals separation of church and state and secularism) , Islam has a problem that we need to talk about. is it irrational to be more afraid of Islamism than of Mormonism?

5. What harms the mass majority of Muslims who love freedom and hate terror? Muslim theocracy does, Muslim intolerance does, Wahhabism does, Salafism does, Islamism does, Jihadism does, sharia law does, the mere conservatism of traditional Islam does, we aren't talking about only jihadists hating homosexuals and thinking they should die, we are talking about conservative Muslims, the percentage of British Muslims polled who said that homosexuality was acceptable was 0, almost in no other poll has 0 or 100% ever existed and non the less for such an extreme opinion.

im assuming this is the poll he's referring to which is extremely damning but does not say 100% of U.K Muslims have unfavorable attitudes towards homosexuality, but it does say more than half think homosexuality should not be legal. Im wondering where the poll is that specifically says ALL of those polled have unfavorable attitudes. Either way this poll isn't better


CNN


THANKS BIG for that post and audio. I wish I could cause every American and Western Civilization person above the age of 10 to listen to it about 5-7 times.




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