What Was Your Biggest Religious Choice?

originally posted by: Raggedyman


I agree. When you look at how we change the way we use words, how it can completely change their meanings, it is hard to believe that anyone alive today, can be 100% sure of the accuracy in translation of any ancient book.


So many Christians use the bible to justify their confirmation bias

Another popular Christian trait is magnifying the flaws of their fellow Christians who are not as obedient as they are.

Christianity itself uses the Bible to justify... everything. And every sect is the one with the truth. There is never a lack of fingers pointed or people to point them at.

If Christianity had only 2 members they would still disagree on something, at least one thing if not a lot.

But it makes a boatload of money for all those preachers and Bible gurus who are in business because people can't learn without being told that it is true, even if what they are learning is b.s. As long as you call yourself Reverend or Minister or Pastor people just take your word for it even though most are not remotely scholary and just have the ability to speak in public pre determined lessons.

But get them in a deep Biblical conversation and they can't get out of there fast enough. It is a profession requiring little skill and naturally attractive to con men.

And actually pays well for something requiring only the ability to speak in public. Once a week.

originally posted by: KingPhilipsiX


Another popular Christian trait is magnifying the flaws of their fellow Christians who are not as obedient as they are.

Christianity itself uses the Bible to justify... everything. And every sect is the one with the truth. There is never a lack of fingers pointed or people to point them at.

If Christianity had only 2 members they would still disagree on something, at least one thing if not a lot.

But it makes a boatload of money for all those preachers and Bible gurus who are in business because people can't learn without being told that it is true, even if what they are learning is b.s. As long as you call yourself Reverend or Minister or Pastor people just take your word for it even though most are not remotely scholary and just have the ability to speak in public pre determined lessons.

But get them in a deep Biblical conversation and they can't get out of there fast enough. It is a profession requiring little skill and naturally attractive to con men.

And actually pays well for something requiring only the ability to speak in public. Once a week.

Little bitter are we?
I think its ignorant of you to say this group, that group are all the same
Its a pity we cant all get way from that

It will never happen

Just go vote Trump or Hillary and bemoan politics

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: KingPhilipsiX


Another popular Christian trait is magnifying the flaws of their fellow Christians who are not as obedient as they are.

Christianity itself uses the Bible to justify... everything. And every sect is the one with the truth. There is never a lack of fingers pointed or people to point them at.

If Christianity had only 2 members they would still disagree on something, at least one thing if not a lot.

But it makes a boatload of money for all those preachers and Bible gurus who are in business because people can't learn without being told that it is true, even if what they are learning is b.s. As long as you call yourself Reverend or Minister or Pastor people just take your word for it even though most are not remotely scholary and just have the ability to speak in public pre determined lessons.

But get them in a deep Biblical conversation and they can't get out of there fast enough. It is a profession requiring little skill and naturally attractive to con men.

And actually pays well for something requiring only the ability to speak in public. Once a week.

Little bitter are we?
I think its ignorant of you to say this group, that group are all the same
Its a pity we cant all get way from that

It will never happen

Just go vote Trump or Hillary and bemoan politics

Why are you bitter? I didn't mean to make you bitter, I thought we we pointing out flaws in other people and was just contributing.

If you can not take it, don't give it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Hey BuzzyWigs!

To answer, I will first quote this excellent observation:

originally posted by: Klassified

^^^This...
You don't just walk away from a cult, whether it is Christianity or other, if you've spent much of your life vested in it. Years will be spent de-programming yourself, and even then, it will pop up occasionally, to remind you the indoctrination isn't 100% gone. I know atheists who still defend their old beliefs occasionally, until they catch themselves, or it's pointed out.

My biggest religious choice was to finally admit that I don't know Jesus.

This has taken most of 30 years to admit, to myself and to others. As difficult as it is to overcome indoctrination, it may be ever so much more difficult to violate your own moral code of honor with respect to disowning or denying a "friend".

Even after 10, 20, 30, years without Christianity, the feeling persisted that I had this relationship with Jesus, an inside track with someone very important. Wouldn't it be evil and despicable to deny him like Peter did? (see John 18). But of course!

But then, on the other hand: "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’… " Matthew 7:22,23.

And to make the gravity of the matter very clear indeed: "Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven." Matthew 10: 32,33.

But weighing the possibility of missing out on some ill defined blessed kingdom against the certainty that claiming knowledge of someone who may very well be fictional (in the sense of a biography fabricated to fit an expectation), is inherently dishonest, which side should prevail? Perhaps honesty.

Even in normal, everyday human relationships people are often shocked to discover that their closest companions are actually strangers to them. That what they thought of as "knowing" an other was in reality the interaction with their own internal projection of what and who they thought the other was, completely misreading who the other was.

So IF there was a man Jesus, who did the things, and said the things as written in the canonical gospels, in all honesty I must admit that he is a complete stranger to me, even though I have spent most of my life feeling that we were friends and companions.

The probability is quite high that the idea and ideal of such a person which was taught to me from my earliest childhood was internalized in such a way as to seem like an other rather than part of my own imagination.

Thank you for the thread. I must admit that in normal life I am quite secular. I really only think theologically when conversing. That explains why I take long hiatuses from the forum, to get my thinking back in order, away from the influence of my own personal desire to please and be pleasing to those I converse with. Sad huh?

a reply to: pthena

Glad to see you back here my friend...

its been a long time

a reply to: Akragon

Almost a whole year. It will probably take a while to re-acclimate. Perhaps I'll lurk more than write, less embarrassing that way.

a reply to: pthena

We can be 100% sure that Jesus did exist and walked this earth so believing there was a Jesus is ok. He preached good things and tried to help people to see the light (I write that laughing knowing that is sounds ridiculous but don't know any other way to phrase it). I know its possible to tap into an energy and heal people, so why is it so outlandish that he did that himself. He was very enlightened and probably had easy access to this universal power / energy.

Sorry if im losing you, Im just saying that for me (not a "christian"), it is not that hard to believe that Jesus was real and did everything the stories said he did. Im still a little stumped on his immaculate conception but hey, its ok not to know the answers to everything all the time.

What I am learning though is that what he referred to as "God" (probably the best terminology at his time) has been manipulated and grown into something that is entirely different than what he intended. BC of that, I am not a "christian", however I believe in Christian values and enjoy searching for the truth but know I will probably never know in my lifetime.

a reply to: veracity

The thread is about choice. Some years ago, the debate on the existence or non-existence of the historical Jesus was a pretty hot topic. At that time, Bart Ehrman weighed in on the existence side. I had to ask myself "why?".

I'm not Ehrman, even though he has had some experiences similar to my own, and more importantly, asked himself questions similar to ones I have asked myself. He didn't stop. In fact, he has a new book out: Jesus Before the Gospels: How the Earliest Christians Remembered, Changed, & Invented Their Stories of the Savior. I just now discovered. I may actually read that book.

“Ehrman provides an intriguing overview of memory studies and introduces readers to a variety of important pioneers and studies. . . . Ehrman concludes that ‘the historical Jesus did not make history; the remembered Jesus did.’ An intriguing new angle on the well-worn field of ‘historical Jesus’ studies.”
www.bartdehrman.com...

My choice boiled down to this: The actual person Jesus is unknown, (he's not actually in history). Out of respect for the Stranger, it is not my place to dictate to him who he was or what he said. That is lost in the past, and not my past even, like some tool I used to have but no longer do, of which there was a time in which I could stand right here and reach out and it's in my hand; no, I never did have the actual Jesus, only my idea of him.

a reply to: pthena

I am delighted to see you back, my friend!

'Tis not sad, 'tis wise. I missed you, but having spent much of a year away myself in 2014, I know how healing it can be to take a break. Your post is wonderful.

Although I was churched as a kid, I found the tales preposterous - and unfortunately never really felt like I "knew" Jesus...never felt that I'd "met" him or walked with him. He was a distantly remote celebrity figure whose name I knew, nothing more.

Maybe that means something, maybe it doesn't. All I know is that I never really "felt the power". The music always stirred me, though. The incense and stained glass and music were nice. The talking? meh.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Maybe that means something, maybe it doesn't. All I know is that I never really "felt the power".

It does make a difference. To "feel the power" is to have the "thing" internalized, it becomes a facet of the self. To then turn away is to deny your self in some significant manner. It isn't easy, or quick, or even safe for that matter.

a reply to: pthena

Oh, I'm very aware that it's hard for those who actually "felt" it. Like a breakup. A divorce. Or a death. I understand that.

a reply to: pthena
Jesus did walk this earth, he was a mortal man, just like you or I. Just bc he was once alive does not mean that I believe in what has evolved into "God". I am not a Christian, but was raised to believe. It was never forced on me but I made a choice to reject it. Bc I did this pretty early in my life, it was not very detrimental or hard to do. My family still thinks I am evil and need help but I don't listen much to small minded people anymore.

What IS interesting to me is learning about different religions, it's making me more spiritual and I feel it's bringing me closer to the "light"...(or whatever Jesus was preaching years ago.

a reply to: veracity

That's how I see it, too. Thanks for posting!!