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Not for nothing but...

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posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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..why don't some of the masonry skeptical members get together and hav someone join a lodge and then report what goes on to ATS?

Now, I don't have any suspicions about the Free Masons, and I know that some of them well throw their hands up and say c.f. 'why can't you people just leave us alone, its none of your business what we do anyway', and they'd have a valid point there. But what with so many people that are so supiscious of freemasonry, wouldn't this infiltration tactic be a decent way to dispell some of the lunacy about it? An interesting research project no? I don't think for a moment that it would have a significant impact on the anti-masonry hysteria out there, but it just seems like what one would want to do if one thought they were so suspicious and cult like.

I know however that the usual cop out for this is to say 'well i don't want to give them any financial support' or 'the initiates don't know what goes on at the top', but it would be worthwhile for the people who think occultism and evvviiiiil pervades all levels.




posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:47 AM
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But what if they reported the truth? That Masons are just regular people with no deep dark secrets or aspirations of world domination. They would be accused of being dupes or of being co-opted. There's plenty of truth about Masons out there and the bottom line is they are a bunch of decent, albeit corny guys.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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I suspect that if several people got together tho it would lend more credibility to it. It would certainly be an intersting ongoing research project to refer people to.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I suspect that if several people got together tho it would lend more credibility to it. It would certainly be an intersting ongoing research project to refer people to.


It's always easier to just read what someone else writes on freemasonrywatch.org and spew it back out like it's your own material.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
..why don't some of the masonry skeptical members get together and hav someone join a lodge and then report what goes on to ATS?


I'm not sure whether or not you're joking, but in fact, something of this sort actually happened once. The story was reported in Bro. Alphonse Cerza's book "Let There Be Light: A Study In Anti-Masonry". I loaned the book out, so will here have to tell it from memory; if I make an error, I'll post to this thread after I get the book back and look at it again.

In the mid 17th century, the king of England considered closing down all the London Lodges because they were perceived as a secret society, which caused the king apprehension. The Masters of a few of the Lodges met with the king, and offered to initiate several members of his Cabinet, saying that if they found anything wrong with Masonry, they then would gladly close their Lodges. The king gave his consent, and several of his ministers, who had likewise questioned Masonry, were given the degrees.

They reported back to the king that Masonry was nothing for him to worry about, and that the organization was good and virtuous. Several of them stayed involved in Masonry, eventually becoming Masters of their Lodges, with one eventually becoming Provincial Grand Master.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Nygdan
..why don't some of the masonry skeptical members get together and hav someone join a lodge and then report what goes on to ATS?


I'm not sure whether or not you're joking, but in fact, something of this sort actually happened once. The story was reported in Bro. Alphonse Cerza's book "Let There Be Light: A Study In Anti-Masonry". I loaned the book out, so will here have to tell it from memory; if I make an error, I'll post to this thread after I get the book back and look at it again.



[edit on 17-1-2005 by Masonic Light]


The master ML has spoken.I am interested in masonry but just too busy to do research cos sadly i dont know that much about it.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by drunk
I am interested in masonry but just too busy to do research cos sadly i dont know that much about it.


This may or may not help, but I can recommend the same two books that I had read before deciding to investigate it further. These books were crucial in my decision to become a Mason:

"The Builders" by Dr. Joseph Fort Newton and "Freemasonry Interpreted" by Rev. Martin Wagner.

Interestingly, both books were written by Christian ministers; the first by a minister who was a Mason, and the second by a minister who opposed Freemasonry. These two books, therefore, give a good background on both sides of the issue, and both provide interesting interpretations of Masonic ritual and symbolism.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
eventually becoming Masters of their Lodges, with one eventually becoming Provincial Grand Master.

He was not booted when this was discoverde, or it was simply never revealed? I would think that a person who develops a genuine interest in masonry wouldn't continue to keep up the facade of having joined purely out of their own interest?



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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In general a man will approach Freemasonry with a favorable notion preconceived of its institutions. Curiosity and an agenda to reveal private ceremonies and secrets don't often work as a motive to become a member of a Lodge. People disqualify themselves.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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But this is not something the lodge members would know about anyway no, so how would the person be disqualified?



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
But this is not something the lodge members would know about anyway no, so how would the person be disqualified?


By disinterest. When you take a real look at the fraternity (not read about it on a conspiracy website), it's very easy to see that there is nothing to gain in the form of conspiracy secrets or power... that's just silly. So a person that joined for those motives realizes that it's not worth his time or effort, even just to learn the rituals and words in order to expose them, and therefore disqualifies himself.



[edit on 17-1-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
He was not booted when this was discoverde, or it was simply never revealed? I would think that a person who develops a genuine interest in masonry wouldn't continue to keep up the facade of having joined purely out of their own interest?


It was made known when these men were initiated that the purpose of their initiation was determine if Freemasonry posed a threat to English society; and it was the local Masons who volunteered to initiate these men and prove that Masonry was beneficial, instead of having their Lodges closed.

After these men were initiated, several did indeed develop a genuine interest in the fraternity, even though they oroginally were initiated for the sole purpose of acting as ministers to the king.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:17 AM
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Cheers again ML i'll make a note of those books and see if i can find them here in Hong Kong.




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