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POLITICS: Irans Khatami raps US on rights

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posted on Jan, 16 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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In response to U.S. criticism of human rights violations in his country, Iranian President Mohammad Khatami, has leveled some charges of his own. Responding to a U.S. statement concerning Nobel prize winner Shirin Ebadi, Khatami sated the U.S. was in no position to criticize due to the abuses at the Abu Ghraib jail.
 



news.bbc.co.uk
Iranian President Mohammad Khatami has attacked the US for criticizing his country's human rights record.

On Friday, the US State Department expressed "grave concern" about court action being taken against the Iranian human rights campaigner Shirin Ebadi.

Mr Khatami claimed the US had no right to criticize Iran, citing what he called their "relentless killing" and abuses in Iraq's Abu Ghraib jail.

Mr Khatami was speaking in Senegal during a tour of African states.

Mr Khatami was responding to remarks by US State Department spokesman Louis Fintor, who said America was gravely concerned about a court summons issued in Tehran against Ms Ebadi, a civil rights lawyer.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Now every tin-horn dictator has a strawman to put forth in any disagreement with the U.S. thanks to Abu Ghraib. The big issue came to a head when Ebadi said that she had refused to obey a summons to the Revolutionary Court. In doing so she risks arrest or worse. However, Khatami, who is a moderate, has guaranteed her safety. We will have to see how this all plays out.




posted on Jan, 16 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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No one takes this seriously, so who gives a damn?



posted on Jan, 16 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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Now every tin-horn dictator


Now, Fred, Khartami is hardly a tin-horn dictator is he? Last I checked, he was a democratically elected President....unlike some......



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by stumason



Now every tin-horn dictator


Now, Fred, Khartami is hardly a tin-horn dictator is he? Last I checked, he was a democratically elected President....unlike some......


Ya, i guess that's why Iranians want him out huh?
That's also why he puts in prison those who speak out for a democratic government. i am not talking about people making riots, but just by speaking out.... Nice try....

Anyways.... Khatami allows this kind of behaviour, he encourages every type of torture. Last time i checked, and do check the memo again if you need to, we do not condone all forms of torture, such as beatings to death, rapes etc.....


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Muaddib]


Sep

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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Ya, i guess that's why Iranians want him out huh?
That's also why he puts in prison those who speak out for a democratic government. i am not talking about people making riots, but just by speaking out.... Nice try....

Anyways.... Khatami allows this kind of behaviour, he encourages every type of torture. Last time i checked, and do check the memo again if you need to, we do not condone all forms of torture, such as beatings to death, rapes etc.....


Can you provide me with a speech or anything that has Khatami where "he encourages every type of torture." Last I checked he was the most popular president elected, and he served out his term and now he is leaving. I dont know who you are thinking of, but Khatami can hardly be called a dictator.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Sep]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:54 AM
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We also put in jail any US soldiers who do something they should not be doing in Abhu Ghraib. Cant control everyone, some people do things on their own watch.

I dont know jack about Iran, but I think this Iranian President is obviously an idiot. I hate people who do these cheap politics like

"A US soldier beat up an Iraqi prisoner, omg US is TORTURING EVERYONE AT ABHU GHRAIB" " THE WORLD MUST SHUN THEM AND SAVE OUR MUSLIM PEACE LOVERS!"

It is no wonder these countries suck. They are dumb as hell to say things like this. But even soccer moms in America say these stupid things.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

Now, Fred, Khartami is hardly a tin-horn dictator is he? Last I checked, he was a democratically elected President....unlike some......


yet who really runs iran? not him.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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Muaddib says:
That's also why he puts in prison those who speak out for a democratic government. i am not talking about people making riots, but just by speaking out.... Nice try....


Khatami is a major step forward for the Iranian people. The US has made itself vulnerable on the charge you make. How many Americans were jailed during the Republican convention just for expressing their dissenting points of view!!!! The US continually shows itself to place the same low value on human rights and dignity as all the other countries it criticizes and condemns. You cannot do what this country has been doing the past several years and simultaneously claim the moral high ground. The world reels with laughter at the absurd contradiction. This emporer has no clothes!



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by Sep

Can you provide me with a speech or anything that has Khatami where "he encourages every type of torture." Last I checked he was the most popular president elected, and he served out his term and now he is leaving. I dont know who you are thinking of, but Khatami can hardly be called a dictator.
[edit on 17-1-2005 by Sep]


Sure, here is some information with excerpts....


If there had been no press, no investigations by the Parliament, no Article 90 Commission, I think that I would still be in prison or I would be dead. They made sure that I was not forgotten…If I had spoken out and no one knew my name from the newspapers, I would be dead. I am sure of this. Now, there are those students in prison, and no one knows their names, and they are rotting in a corner somewhere thinking that no one in the world knows where they are. And now, how will we know?1 – Hossein T., a student activist and former prisoner.

No one knows how many people are held in Iran’s prisons and secret detention centers for the peaceful expression of their views. Over the past four years, as the window of free expression has closed in Iran, abuse and torture of dissidents have increased in Evin Prison’s solitary cells and secret detention centers.

In the years following the election of President Mohammad Khatami in 1997, on a platform of supporting rule of law and civil society, independent newspapers and journals flourished in Iran. In 2000, a large class of more vocal and reform minded representatives entered a revitalized parliament, promising to introduce new laws that would challenge the status quo. Intellectuals, journalists, and writers debated publicly some of the most critical issues facing Iranian society. In response, the judiciary and the extra-legal security and intelligence agencies of the Iranian state have sought to destroy these voices.

Since then Iran’s independent newspapers have been almost completely destroyed, the result of a campaign launched by the Office of the Leader and the judicial authority in April 2000 to silence growing dissent.2 Said Mortazavi, then the judge of Public Court Branch 1410, was the leading force behind the crackdown in its early years, directed mainly at newspapers and journals which had become critical voices for change. He was subsequently appointed to the powerful position of Tehran Chief Prosecutor, a post he holds today.


Excerpted from.
www.hrw.org...



In fact, the organization had on June 7 published a priceless 73-page report entitled "Like the Dead in Their Coffins: Torture, Detention, and the Crushing of Dissent in Iran,” which gave unprecedented details on how political detainees have been tortured in the presence of judges, held for weeks in absolute solitary confinement, and denied basic due process rights.

In recent weeks, hundreds of student protesters have been summoned to court around the country or sent to university disciplinary committees for punishment. Last month, a number of political detainees on medical leave received harsh prison sentences for articles they had published.

................................
The HRW report covers mostly the so-called Khatami era (after President Mohammad Khatami). The report shows quite flawlessly that the two-term presidency of Khatami only worsened the human rights situation in Iran. Iran's record of human rights during the '80s and the '90s is well-known and documented, but especially since Khatami's second term, beginning in 2001, the degrading situation shows much more than mere rights abuses. This was supposed to be a period of "openness," one of "reform." Now with such a rights record, and with the recent parliamentary elections -- with virtually all candidates not belonging to the opposite faction, namely the Supreme leader Ali Khamenei's faction, put out of the game -- one can easily deduce that no reform will ever be in sight with the current regime in place.


Excerpted from.
www.intellectualconservative.com...

Now that's an evil son of a gun..... I have no idea where you get that the people love him. This is one man hated by most if not all Iranians.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by dubiousone

Khatami is a major step forward for the Iranian people. The US has made itself vulnerable on the charge you make. How many Americans were jailed during the Republican convention just for expressing their dissenting points of view!!!! The US continually shows itself to place the same low value on human rights and dignity as all the other countries it criticizes and condemns. You cannot do what this country has been doing the past several years and simultaneously claim the moral high ground. The world reels with laughter at the absurd contradiction. This emporer has no clothes!


Are they still in jail dubious?.... Are they rotting away for peaceful demonstrations?.... If a police officer tells someone they can't demonstrate in that area, but those people keep doing whatever they want no matter how many times a police officer tells them they must leave to the allowed area for the demonstration...these people will get detained, but they are not indefinetly jailed "dubious".....

Keep congratulating and putting forth real evil men as if they were good dubious....


DENY IGNORANCE!!!!!!


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:22 AM
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Muaddib says:
Keep congratulating and putting forth real evil men as if they were good dubious....



Muaddib, I love your posts. Cantankerous as ever. You're nothing if not consistent when it comes to politics.

Think of the inplications of what you are saying. If the elected leader of a country is responsible for all the evil that its agencies commit, then what does that say for your candidate for "best president of all time"????

Khatami is not a dictator. He is an elected leader. His powers are limited. The Guardians Council limit what he can do. It wouldn't matter who is in power in Iran, they would still be the devil to you since good old Dubya has proclaimed that Iran is the second spoke of the axis of evil.

I suppose you'd say that Reza Pahlavi was an angel, though he was one of the most despised despots the Iranian people have endured in modern times. After all, he was installed and supported by the CIA. Naturally, that makes him a fine chap.


Sep

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Now that's an evil son of a gun..... I have no idea where you get that the people love him. This is one man hated by most if not all Iranians.


Here is the article that you posted:


In the years following the election of President Mohammad Khatami in 1997, on a platform of supporting rule of law and civil society, independent newspapers and journals flourished in Iran. In 2000, a large class of more vocal and reform minded representatives entered a revitalized parliament, promising to introduce new laws that would challenge the status quo. Intellectuals, journalists, and writers debated publicly some of the most critical issues facing Iranian society. In response, the judiciary and the extra-legal security and intelligence agencies of the Iranian state have sought to destroy these voices.

So Khatami actually freed alot of things in Iran it was the "judiciary and the extra-legal security and intelligence agencies of the Iranian state have sought to destroy these voices. "

How does that make Khatami an evil dictator? He won 70% of the vote in 1997, he won around 60% of the vote in 2001. So he is more poplular in Iran that Bush is in the US.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Sep]


Sep

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:37 AM
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Here is what BBC said about him in 2001: news.bbc.co.uk...

"Until then a little known cleric, he captured almost 70% of the vote, humiliating the conservative candidate."

You can read more about him and his background here:

www.encyclopedia.com...



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by dubiousone

..............
Khatami is not a dictator. He is an elected leader. His powers are limited. The Guardians Council limit what he can do. It wouldn't matter who is in power in Iran, they would still be the devil to you since good old Dubya has proclaimed that Iran is the second spoke of the axis of evil.


fidel castro was also supposedly an elected leader....yet he became a dictator...in case you didn't know, Khatami has done the same. There is no opposition, only his party exists....or any party that "the powers that be" allow to exist. Khatami chooses whether or not candidates can run for presidency....

BTW, I do not proclaim that Khatami is an evil man because president Bush says so, but rather because of the actions of Khatami.....

So keep trying to destroy my argument by making derogatory comments, and meanwhile keep claiming that evil men are good. His actions speak louder than any claims you can make of his..."goodness"....



Originally posted by dubiousone
I suppose you'd say that Reza Pahlavi was an angel, though he was one of the most despised despots the Iranian people have endured in modern times. After all, he was installed and supported by the CIA. Naturally, that makes him a fine chap.


Can you point exactly where I said that? The US has made many mistakes in the past as they have tried to fight communism, which is one of the reasons why they sided with the Shah. There weren't a lot of choices, it was either the Shah or allowing the Russian communists to reign in the region, and become stronger as they set out to conquer the middle east.....but of course you have to leave this out....

The US did train many of our present enemies, mainly for the reason that they were fighting at the time against a common enemy, communism. Ever heard the phrase "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"?.... But even if you help one of your enemies against a common enemy, you are not controlling them, and they can at any time turn against you, which is what Osama and some others have done. But of course, you also have to leave this out...

BTW, I found the following action of appeal from 2001 to the president of Japan, when Khatami was visiting the country that year. It pretty much explains what is happening in Iran. keep in mind this is from 2001.
Let me make an excerpt.



I am writing this letter to inform you of my grave dismay in learning that
your esteemed Institute of higher education has decided to grant an honorary
Doctorate to Mr. Mohammad Khatami, the President of the Islamic Republic of
Iran. In fact, I would very much like to know why your institution has made
such a decision? While I would truly appreciate your reply to my question, I
would like to give you the reasons for my grave disappointment about this
decision:

Iran, before and after the election of Mr. Khatami in 1997, and in spite of
the now stalled and diminished reforms of Mr. Khatami, remains a totalitarian
theocracy. The Islamic Republic is a system of government in which a
minority of mullah clergy proclaim to have the divine right to rule over more
than 60 million people. This presumed divine right is called the absolute
Velayate-Faghih, or the absolute rule of the Supreme Jurisprudence!


Excerpted from.
mehr.org...

The action of appeal contains more information, on the actions that Khatami has taken against many of his own people, but of course, you are going to be bored it seems.


---edited for errors---

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by Sep
How does that make Khatami an evil dictator? He won 70% of the vote in 1997, he won around 60% of the vote in 2001. So he is more poplular in Iran that Bush is in the US.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Sep]


You left the following out....



The HRW report covers mostly the so-called Khatami era (after President Mohammad Khatami). The report shows quite flawlessly that the two-term presidency of Khatami only worsened the human rights situation in Iran. Iran's record of human rights during the '80s and the '90s is well-known and documented, but especially since Khatami's second term, beginning in 2001, the degrading situation shows much more than mere rights abuses.


Keep reading the links to find out the wonderful things Khatami is doing...


BTW, once more.... fidel castro (I put his name in lower caps for a reason) was also "elected"....then he made sure he was kept "elected"....Khatami has done the same.



[edit on 17-1-2005 by Muaddib]


Sep

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW, once more.... fidel castro (I put his name in lower caps for a reason) was also "elected"....then he made sure he was kept "elected"....Khatami has done the same.


I respect the fact that you want to have a conversation, but dont make things up as you go along. There is no opposition? LOL. Khatami has been the President since 1997 and he is in his second term, when his term is up, on may, an election is going to happen, and he is not allowed to run under the consitituation. You want me to give you the name of the candidates that are running, the exact date and a few links about the elections or will you admit that you were way off about Khatami?


Sep

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
fidel castro was also supposedly an elected leader....yet he became a dictator...in case you didn't know, Khatami has done the same. There is no opposition, only his party exists....or any party that "the powers that be" allow to exist. Khatami chooses whether or not candidates can run for presidency....


Are you sure about that? Here is a list of regestered parties in Iran. There is over 100 of them. Khatami is from Majma-e Rowhaniyoun-e Mobarez, one of many parties.

www.parstimes.com...

And about Khatami not allowing candidates to run, I think you have everything mixed up. You are thinking of the Guardian council, which has nothing to doo with Khatami, that is Khamenei



[edit on 17-1-2005 by Sep]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:23 AM
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Muaddib,
Go talk to some Iranians and get some first hand perspective.


Sep

posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:29 AM
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Sorry I made a mistake in one of my previous remarks. I said that Khatami in 2001 won his second election with 60% but it was acctually 77.4 %. Please accept my appoligies



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 05:55 AM
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To those who are stating that Iran is a democratic country and that the elections prove this to be so? That's not exactly true.

The opposition parties are hand picked by the Council of Guardians, as someone has already stated. Thousands of candidates were prevented from standing in the last election on the pretext that they were "indifferent to Islam" or in that they supposedly questioned Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's powers. Even Khatami's own brother - a sitting MP - was banned from taking part. Hardly free and fair elections.


news.bbc.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...


As for Khatami himself? He has no real power. He was elected as a reformist but the ayatollahs have filled the Iranian parliament with conservatives. They can veto any move that he tries to make. It's relevant to this story that the Iranian Parliament recently removed all power from Khatami regarding foreign policy by handing themselves the power of veto over any move he makes. On the world stage, Khatami is at his weakest.

Human rights abuse have also worsened since Khatami took power.

news.bbc.co.uk...

It should also be noted that in the past 4 years, over 100 newspapers have been closed down by the government. Freedom of speech is as rare a commodity as ever.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Leveller]



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