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posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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Proteinx
You are one sarcastic soul! That was entertaining. Not a hell of a lot of substance but good entertainment.

I agree with you in part, as one of the most entertaining things in India is their mastery of colourful language. I mean that in the best way because listening to it can be real joy. But one quickly learns to see where that colour ends and the substance begins.

But you might be selling Indian technicians short. I've seen some Indian techs who were real wizards. Unfortunately at the higher organizational level there are some bizarre incapacities such as trying to develop a main battle tank for the last 25 years and still not getting it right. At the same time, they manage to keep their older style, yet amazing train system and postal system functioning much better than its Chinese counterparts. (I have just had to deal with both in China recently so don't get me started)

Historically speaking, I often leave my Indian friends speechless by innocently asking how it was that an giant elephant like India couldn't get its act together to just shake the bloodsucking British tick off in a second (and give it a stomp for good measure). Of course they have no answer because the answer would be to admit what they know are India's national character flaws. Don't get me wrong, each country has it's flaws and its wonderful strengths but the flaws can be tough for the residents to admit (that's a hint to the Yanks)

Shall we talk about those in China? I am more that willing to talk about Canada's!

Daedalus3:
Please don't take any of this in a bad way. The world needs a laugh and this one is G rated. Let's take it while we have it.


[edit on 18-1-2005 by revengeogmakhno]




posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 03:27 PM
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guys, were all mature people, lets try and keep the personal arguing as it were, to a minimum, i can argue with people in brute ways at school, here i want an inteligent convo. but anyway, u all make excellent claims, but one thing i noticed, is that one of you stated something about Iran being the start of a world war..i dont see that happening..im assuming you believe the U.S would start that war...just an assumption..but i wonder what nation would risk full engagement with U.S forces who decide to invade Iran...and especially if it was for a legit reason since the Iraq reason will never ever happen again.. also, it was said that NATO would have to repell a Russian invasion into Europe, (which will never happen anyway), but was also said that NATO is useless without the U.S. Yes and No. Yes becuase the U.S makes up the brunt of NATOs forces, but No, becuase in a situation like this, im sure other countries would join the war effort-either that or it would be mainly Americans and the small number of Europeans-remember i say Small number not bashing Europe, but France and U.K are the only ones with a sizeable army, and combined its what, about 1 mill? maybe less? i cant find an exact number but i know its less that the 500,000 of the U.S. Germany is restriced to 100,000 or so, and i dont even know about the Italian and Spanish armed forces but i wouldnt expect much, and im not basing anyone (im italian after all) im just trying to be realisitic...



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 07:43 PM
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14 years for China to catch up on US on GDP. 35 years to catch up on GDP per person.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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So ya.. how's that love in Pakistan and India going with a few artillery shells flying overhead?

The goverments might be peaceful but I still argue that the military of both countries are biting at the bit to attack each other.

Grudges arent forgotten easy. Wars are even harder to forget.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Frankly speaking, I am really really not Anti-inidan at all. And I have many nice indian friends. My best friend's husband is indian too.

However, we do have chinese proverb: effective drugs sometime taste bitter. I hope my inidan friend here understand what it means.

Yes, I totally agree with your argment that "every nation has charactar flaw", whoever can realize it who will be the final winner.

As for Chinese, I would say: lack of confidence and too sensitive------it is understandable, think as if your family once were very rich for long time but the whole world for you became upside down and you just start to change back what it used to be, of course, you are very sensitive to what others says. But you know what, Chinese is going to become what they use to be respected by the rest of world

As for American, I would say: you have to divide them into two groups but overall they are arrogant and igorant of the rest of the world.----They dont have to know rest of world!!!------- Cause they are best. But almost every empire die of arrogant, no exception.

As for Indian: they need to get rid of buda spirit. Stop thinking and dreaming, do something, please!!!

As for Japanese: narrow mind and tooo short term eye, there has never been great national strategy in Japan.---if they decide to attack Soviet Union instead of America in 1941, the whole history could have been changed. If they didnot slaught Chinese and adopted peaceful strategy after they invaded China, there could be highly possible that Japan and China become one -------after all, Japanese and Chinese are rooted from same culture. We all eat rice and kind of "offspring" of Kongfuzi. At that moment in 1920s or 1930s, most pains in China were caused by western countries, and in fact, lots Chinese admired Japan once defeated Russian.

As for European: dont know too much but feel they.......are too tolerant too islamic.....(I might be wrong), EU put them into great danger once they accept Turkey.

As for most mid east arabic people: their relgion stop people from improving their lives. Every woman need to put a mask on the face--------that is their goal for the world.

As for Canadian: ha, I dont know, I only know South Park like to make fun of Canadian, anybody can make up something?




[edit on 18-1-2005 by proteinx]

[edit on 18-1-2005 by proteinx]



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 10:30 PM
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So America is the most powerful nation right now becuse we pay no attention to what goes on in the rest of the world, riiiiiiiiight......Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Americans, all are the same. Remember individual European countries have far less people than the United States does; so does Canada.

And what is this that America is some empire that will fall soon?? America isn't an empire in the traditional sense to begin with; and America isn't as ignorant as people like to believe.

It was China's very ignorance that caused its fall. And if you walked up to the average Chinese on in China, who only gets their info from China's state-run media, I don't think they'd be too knowledgeable or world affairs either (they actually believe a United States surveillance plane, which contains technology in it that the U.S. obviously doesn't want China to have, actually intentionally smacked into a Chinese fighter plane)



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Oh, and Japan and China are only rooted in the same culture because during Japan's feudal days, they fell in love with Chinese culture; they made Chinese food, spoke and wrote in Chinese language, used Chinese dishware, did Chinese artwork, and even only used Chinese gestures and clothing.

Japanese people though, genetically, are actually of Korean descent.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by Broadsword20068
So America is the most powerful nation right now becuse we pay no attention to what goes on in the rest of the world, riiiiiiiiight......Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Americans, all are the same. Remember individual European countries have far less people than the United States does; so does Canada.

And what is this that America is some empire that will fall soon?? America isn't an empire in the traditional sense to begin with; and America isn't as ignorant as people like to believe.

It was China's very ignorance that caused its fall. And if you walked up to the average Chinese on in China, who only gets their info from China's state-run media, I don't think they'd be too knowledgeable or world affairs either (they actually believe a United States surveillance plane, which contains technology in it that the U.S. obviously doesn't want China to have, actually intentionally smacked into a Chinese fighter plane)


wait second, we are going to come back to the old brainwash thread again here?
Turn on your TV and change channel to Fox news, and same time find a Chinese friend turn on TV to Chinese Central TV station. You know what you will find out? They are talking almost exact same thing in same style-------The only different are the names---------Same stupid, funny and brainwashed propaganda machine.

I can see both channels and we always turn on them together and make jokes. We once talked lots about the picture that Bush hold a fake turkey in Iraq last year: if you change the head of Bush to the lead of CCP, it can absolutely published on Chinese central newspaper (people daily)


So, yeah, many Chinese are blind by CCTV, same as many of you blind by Fox news. All the matter of propaganda.

The only difference is that Chinese government own the media, American government control the media.



[edit on 18-1-2005 by proteinx]



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Oh, and Japan and China are only rooted in the same culture because during Japan's feudal days, they fell in love with Chinese culture; they made Chinese food, spoke and wrote in Chinese language, used Chinese dishware, did Chinese artwork, and even only used Chinese gestures and clothing.

Japanese people though, genetically, are actually of Korean descent.


Please google the definition of East Asia culture and KongFuzi. The whole east Asia, China, Korea, Japan, and other Southeast Asia, Kongfuzi is the rooted culture just like Christian culture in USA. The flag of Korean is from the Taoism symbol.
Oh, by the way, I need to let you guys know that current recognized "Chinese traditional costume" in western world, I mean, the 'QiPao' is not real Chinese traditional costume. The real traditional costume, in fact, more like what Japanese traditional costume------- it is little sad they inherited the Chinese Tang dynasty's culture better than Chinese ourselves did..........But I think more real traditional Chinese stuff will be broadcasted to the world with the reviving of China.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by revengeogmakhno
Proteinx
You are one sarcastic soul! That was entertaining. Not a hell of a lot of substance but good entertainment.

I agree with you in part, as one of the most entertaining things in India is their mastery of colourful language. I mean that in the best way because listening to it can be real joy. But one quickly learns to see where that colour ends and the substance begins.

But you might be selling Indian technicians short. I've seen some Indian techs who were real wizards. Unfortunately at the higher organizational level there are some bizarre incapacities such as trying to develop a main battle tank for the last 25 years and still not getting it right. At the same time, they manage to keep their older style, yet amazing train system and postal system functioning much better than its Chinese counterparts. (I have just had to deal with both in China recently so don't get me started)

Historically speaking, I often leave my Indian friends speechless by innocently asking how it was that an giant elephant like India couldn't get its act together to just shake the bloodsucking British tick off in a second (and give it a stomp for good measure). Of course they have no answer because the answer would be to admit what they know are India's national character flaws. Don't get me wrong, each country has it's flaws and its wonderful strengths but the flaws can be tough for the residents to admit (that's a hint to the Yanks)

Shall we talk about those in China? I am more that willing to talk about Canada's!

Daedalus3:
Please don't take any of this in a bad way. The world needs a laugh and this one is G rated. Let's take it while we have it.


[edit on 18-1-2005 by revengeogmakhno]


Oh no no no! I can't take this in a bad way..
Just check the ATS points that proteinx has and then you'll realise that only the mods take his sarcasm in a bad way


Proteinx 's info on the Mars mission is all flawed...we have an unmanned
lunar probe set for 2008 and we are eager to cooperate in the NASA Mars mission in case it is an international thing..
Also I don't knowwhere he got his 2 million USD figure from..?

Also we manufacture bullets in India as a matter of fact..
Bullets and a lot of other things too but lets not get into that...


China will help Pakistan in a prolonged Indo Pak conflict where Pakistan is in danger of losing its sovereignity, thats for sure...Ask proteinx...
China Pak relations go as deep as Russo-Indian relations...but then again thats just speculation on my part..besides pointing out all the underhanded deals that China and Pak have undertaken in the past I cannot show you "proof" that China would help Pakistan..
1. China is the source for Pakistan's nuke technology..
2. NK is the source for Pakistans missile technology
3. Pak is the source for NK's nuke technology

Infact I suggest you read books by Western Author "Humphrey Hawksley"
like "dragonfire" , "dragonstrike" and "WWIII"...those are also pure fiction but based on current events and facts..
Just like before 9/11 any novel about a plane based terrorist attack on the WTC would be regarded as 'fantasy'...



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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Daedalus3
Are you suggesting that an attack by India on Pakistan could be an attempt to threaten the sovereignty of Pakistan? (as opposed to an attempt to take Kashmir once and for all)

The Chinese are as cold blooded as the Russians when it comes to dealing in geo-politics. That is why I don't think they have a serious loyalty to Pakistan. Sure they don't want Pakistan to disappear from the map but fighting and suffering over who gets Kashmir? Not likely!

proteinx
When you speak of traditional Chinese dress are you referring to both male and female attire? how about traditional architecture? (this is a serious question not sarcasm)


Broadsword20068
proteinx has his own logic, I wouldn't get too caught up with it. You are also correct that the US is not empire in the traditional sense but that is very old hat. I am sure you can do better than that. The US as the new neo-colonial type of empire was discussed way back in the 50s by concerned Americans themselves.

You are also correct in that Americans (very loosely taken as a whole because it is very easy to over-generalize) are not as ignorant as many other think. In fact, I often tell people that if you want to know what is really wrong with the US, then you need to talk to the Americans who see it because they feel and experience it from the inside.

It just like when Americans talk about Canada, they think they can see certain things, but when it comes to actually understanding the dynamics of what is happening here, 99%+ of Americans frankly don't have a dipsticker's clue (that other fraction are the ones who come here and spend serious time to truly learn about it without an overriding personal agenda coming it).

Given that, what I am suggesting to you, (and this coming from Americans and from my own long experience of being in the US) is;
1) the state machinery of the US has been hijacked by people who are very much interested in maintaining a neo-colonial empire. We can all elaborate about the fine details but that is the bottom line.
1a) these people are a threat to other people around the world and ultimately also a threat to the long term safety and health of Americans
2) the major media in the US essentially goes along with it or, as in the case of FOX, actively works for it.
3) there is a very large number of Americans who are not happy about this and are shocked and ashamed by it but they are feeling very disempowered and confused as to what to do about it.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by revengeogmakhno
Daedalus3
Are you suggesting that an attack by India on Pakistan could be an attempt to threaten the sovereignty of Pakistan? (as opposed to an attempt to take Kashmir once and for all)

The Chinese are as cold blooded as the Russians when it comes to dealing in geo-politics. That is why I don't think they have a serious loyalty to Pakistan. Sure they don't want Pakistan to disappear from the map but fighting and suffering over who gets Kashmir? Not likely!


Any atack by India on Pakistan would likely mean that Pakistan loses in that particular theatre..obviously..this will force Pakistan's military leadership to open new fronts at various points along the border to try and push the Indians back...A move that will eventually again work against the pakis, they just don't have the infrastructure to sustain a military incursion..India does and they will not just push the pakis back on these new fronts..they will they the battle into Paki territory..and before you know pakis are losing on all fronts..
Bottomline: 'Any conventional battle between India and Pak as of now, will result in India as the all out victor'..no stalemates etc etc..that's why its very tricky foir india to got to war with Pakistan.'

Remember, even before a war started, Paki dictator Musharraf said he will use"all means possible,conventional & unconventional, to protect the motherland"..hinting at pre-emptive nuke strikes even before the start of a war;this is a clear sign of underconfidence in ones conventional abilities..Don't worry, many experts have played this out over and over again, Any future Indo-Pak war can/will degrade into a nuke conflict if it prolongs for more than a week...India is just too powerful for pak in conventional terms, and it will not exercise restraint once Pakistan opens new fronts, it will go all guns blazing...

Similarly Pakistan will not allow the loss of Kashmir..You must understand the Pakistani mindset, the whole existence of Pakistan is based on the 'liberation of kashmir'...they would succumb to numerous internal conflicts and eventually suffer the fate of Yugoslavia if Kashmir is taken by India. The Baluchis(tribes bordering Afghanistan) already engage in frequent skirmishes with the Pak army for simple thing like oil wells and mines..
Let me sum it up to you in one phrase which is the mindset of the paki public:
Pakistan is Kashmir and Kashmir is Pakistan

I agree the chinese will not help unless the war threatens paki sovereignity..

And I am also curious on your current stand on Indo-Russian relations after all the things I pointed out in its favour..Do you now believe it to more than just business dealings?

Btw: a couple more points:

1. Russia leasing Tu-22M backfire bombers to India, the first ever nuke bomber deal in history; an action not observed between westerns allies also..now that has to stand for something..
Also Akula II nuke subs being built for India..

2. India's first man in space, Sqdr Ldr. Rakesh Sharma, went into oribit in 1984 aboard a SoyuzT-11 craft....A gesture offered by the soviets to no other country pre-breakup..

Also Rakesh Sharma was awarded the highest soviet Military designation. "Hero of the Soviet union"..and to my knowledge no other country has had that designation bestowed upon any of their citizens..
Infact IMHO Russia was/is more friendly towards India than India is towards Russia..India IMO abandoned Russia in the afghan campaign where a little help from us could have gone a long way..


3. Latest news brief, Pakistan intiates unprovoked shelling of Indian Positions as of yesterday, breaking a ceasefire that has held since 2003..Indians have not responded and are awaiting an explanation..
Peace is not all what it seems..


Link: www.cnn.com...


[edit on 20-1-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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Daedelus
At this point, if you can say that China stays out unless Pakistan's sovereignty is threatened then I am not sure we disagree on anything substantial on that subject.

Regarding India-Russia,
I think you are dwelling on symbolism and proteinx is going to psycho-analyze you again on that basis! Brace yourself.

The Backfire is another arms deal. As a fast long range strike aircraft, it is a very useful aircraft for India. Why shouldn't the Russians sell it to them? I think they should put a few Yakhonts on them and then there would be no doubt who is the boss in the Indian Ocean! Naval strike does seem to be the role India has in mind. You can describe it as a nuclear bomber but it is useful in several roles. Theoretically the F104 could be called a nuclear bomber because it could and was deployed in that role for many years.

Sending an Indian into space is not an act of love. It was easy for Moscow to do and its big PR for the politicians. But you should hear the off-colour jokes the Russians tell about that gesture! (On second thought maybe you don't want to hear) They sent a Mongolian up there too but do you think they love the Mongolians? (now there is a can of worms!)

In any case, I considered the things you have come up with long ago, talked to people in India and Russia about it, and came to the conclusion that it is expediency that would be dropped when it suits either side. (as with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which India was correct to back away from) I do not see any great love or cultural interraction between India and Russia, I do see a lot of mutual self interest. I can give you more examples but it would be redundant. We are not going to agree on it.

I certainly wish there was such a deeper connection, but...



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Which mongolian did they send up to space?? And awarded him the
"hero of the Soviet union " too??

What purpose would that serve?Even in political terms...




Comparing the F-104 to the Tu-22M is a bit of a joke really..if your trying to say that the US has sold strategic bombers to others to then I don't get you..
You can't compare the F-104/F-16/F-15/Mirage 2000/ Jaguar to the Tu-22M.
The former are all multi role aircraft, which CAN be REWIRED for nuke delivery..also they aren't long range..You're simply trying to wash off the deal as any fighter deal..well thats just it..It isn't just any plane they're giving off..




Not quite like the F-104 aye? or any multi-role fighter for that matter...
Its like giving the Brits/French/Germans a B-2 or a B-1B lancer..which incidently the USAF hasn't..



And for somebody from Ontario, you seem to know a lot about the russian mindset, off-color jokes and all!!..Howcome??



And whats your perspective on the Indo Pak kashmir thing after what I posted..?You get the importance Kashmir has to Pakistan and the fact that they wont be 'ok' with losing it to a surprise invasion..?

[edit on 20-1-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3


2. India's first man in space, Sqdr Ldr. Rakesh Sharma, went into oribit in 1984 aboard a SoyuzT-11 craft....A gesture offered by the soviets to no other country pre-breakup..


and you are pretty proud of this because you guys beg others to give you ride?

or, because you are pretty very much proud of being colonized by Britisth so you have been evolved to be higher lever race compared to the Chinese in your mind, thus you are very honored to be given a chance to have a ride with your conqueror's sports car? (you used to very much appreciate the colonization of British), I once told this to my indian friends, sorry they all think you are BS and shame of Indian.



[edit on 20-1-2005 by proteinx]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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daedalus3
I told you proteinx would be all over you.

Why indeed would they send up a Mongolian? By the way they sent him up in Soyuz39, that is 3 years before the Indian.
Also they sent up a Pole in 1978, a German in 78, a Czech in 78, a Vietnamese in 80, a Cuban in 80, a Hungarian in 80, a Romanian in 81, a Frenchman in 82, etc. So unfortunately, India had to wait pretty close to the end of the queue for the motor-riks (okay, we'll call them taxis).
At least they beat the Syrian in 87 and the Afghan in 88

See how generous the Soviets were? See how friendly they were to countries less fortunate and advanced than themselves? Were they not "better" than the capitalist Yankees? That was the Soviet attitude. Now, of course, it is about money.

Canadians prefer to ride the 1970s technology space shuttle bus to the 1960s Soyuz-Salyut taxis. Unfortunately, that bus...

Hey, no one is comparing a Backfire directly to an F104. It seemed to me that you were making a thing about the Backfire being very nuclear capable. We know lots of planes are nuclear capable including the F104. That's all I was saying.
And no I don't expect to see B1s in the hands of any but the US. B2s? forget it, ever. There is prime classified technology in both and such is not sold. The Backfire is a straight head conventional plane.

Perhaps you are underestimating the Russian desire and need for money.

How do I get familiar with this stuff? Well, I am not a spring chicken and life has taken me all over the place and given me a wide circle of contacts.

proteinx
I also look forward to the great adventure of the first indigenous Indian manned space flight! I hope china's flights are worth the money for the circus glorifying CCP and its gifts to the people.

To everyone
Let's hope and perhaps pray that there is no move into Iran and Syria. I think the consensus is that is where the next expansion will most likely be.

[edit on 20-1-2005 by revengeogmakhno]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by proteinx

Originally posted by Daedalus3


2. India's first man in space, Sqdr Ldr. Rakesh Sharma, went into oribit in 1984 aboard a SoyuzT-11 craft....A gesture offered by the soviets to no other country pre-breakup..


and you are pretty proud of this because you guys beg others to give you ride?

or, because you are pretty very much proud of being colonized by British so you have been evolved to be higher lever race compared to the Chinese in your mind, thus you are very honored to be given a chance to have a ride with your conqueror's sports car? (you used to very much appreciate the colonization of British), I once told this to my indian friends, sorry they all think you are BS and shame of Indian.
[edit on 20-1-2005 by proteinx]



Proteinx I think you've got the british and the Russians all muddled up..The british were in India and the Russians sent an Indian up...
The british have never sent anyone up on their own esteem...
So get your facts straight...

And now we did not 'beg' the Russians to send us up..just like Israel never begged the US to send their first man up, Ilan Ramon,( who unfortunately never came down alive as he was aboard STS-107, ie Columbia's last flight)..
Similarly, neither did the ESA/Japan/Canada beg the US to send their men up....

Now none of these countires im sure think themselves to be highly evolved or anything so chill with the childish banter(my race superior to yours etc.)..

I know your sour that china had to develop its own manned spaceflight capability because nobody let the chinese into the"manned spaceflight playgroup"..aww...my sympathies...

And these indian friends of yours, horribly fictious though they may seem
, agree with your "chinese superior to indians" and "indians too backward to use toilet paper, so wash their butts with the left hand" rhetorics??
Because if thats the case then these friends of yours support you on all your "anti-india/daedalus" escapades,... really intruiging..
You MUST introduce me to these friends of yours proteinx, that is if they DO exist
..
In return I'll introduce you to some VERY REAL ANTI-CHINA chinese people(tibetians actually) who are refuged in India due to china's invasion of tibet in 1959..

And btw proteinx, christmas is over,don't you think its high time you remove those "pretty bright red flashy decorations" from your avvatar??
lol:
..



Addressing you "revenge..",

Don't worry about me and proteinx..we go back a long time..even before you came on the scene.. and as you can see I'm very capable of handling his tantrums..

I must admit I didn't know that the USSR sent France up before India, the others I knew about,
c'mon they were warsaw pact countries.. Same clause can be applied for the US sending up canadians and europeans...
afghanistan understandable, since they were 'occupied' by the USSR at the time.. Syria..funny imagine all those countries got people up to space before china??


Basically the USSR sent up commie countries first before India and France..
France I still dont know how..why not china?


As for the Tu-22Ms..what ever you say, even though the Russians are 'cash-strapped' they don't go leasing strategic bombers to countries who might actually need them more (china)...
The Tu-22M is comparable to the Lancer and so I cannot see how you regard them separately...Tu-22M is by no means a 'run-of-the-mill' conventional aircraft..Infact besides the US,UK, Russia, France and now India no other country has bombers 'dedicated' to that role..
Bottom-line the Tu-22M deal cannot be underplayed..
Similarly the aircraft carrier deal..and the nuke sub deal..these things are not conventional military sales..

And as for your enthusiasm on India's first manned flight, I'm touched, though I thought you would be more hopeful for canada's indepedance from NASA
..assuming you are canadian..
However it is my sad duty to alert you to the fact that India does not see an indigenous manned spaceflight capability in th near future ,simply because it is an avenue which will not reap any scientific returns that future robotic missions will..
(Chandrayaan lunar mission planned for 2008-9)
Its a pure waste of resources for a 'tech statement'..
Japan is following a similar path and frankly IMHO japanese space tech his superior to china..

And as for the space shuttle being superior to the soyuzT-11 , I whole heartedly agree..
but just refresh my memory will you, all manned space flights are carried out from where and in what as of now??


btw you never responded to my pak/kashmir notes..


[edit on 21-1-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Daedalus3
As far as the Pakistan kashmir thing goes, I think we have played the debate out. Obviously there is a heavy constituency for that issue in Pakistan but they have lots of issues and many internal battles. They blow hot and cold and rant and rave, slip a few dollars to insurgents, blah, blah, blah. No doubt there will be it will a flare up over Kashmir at some point (which doesn't necessarily mean war) but I genuinely believe that will happen after the US is finished whatever it has to finish. But there is a growing educated, secular, reasonable Pakistan as well and I am hoping it will eventually assert itself.

You really want to compare the Backfire to the Lancer. ahem... it's role in India will be more like that of the F111 in Australia. Also, no stealth construction on the Backfire, plenty of that on the Lancer. Let's see India go for a Blackjack. Then we'll talk.

Canadian Space Flight; well you have to understand that one of the national character flaws in Canada is to be an anal retentive penny-pincher. Canada could have the bomb, nuclear subs, space flight, high speed attack hydrofoils, mach3 interceptors in the 1950s, anything you can think of, it has been considered, even developed but then generally dropped because of the pricetag. Likewise, many technologies going back to the telephone were invented here but were commercially pushed elsewhere with someone else's money. Same goes for tipping habits and meal portions. Capability is NEVER the problem. Attitude is.

Same goes for space flight. First satellite in 1962, dozens more since, eight astronauts so far including two women, built many components of the space shuttle and space station. All done on the cheap or on a cost recovery basis.
But watch for the DaVinci project and the Arrow. One or both of those projects will likely make it to space next year as a private, low budget, money making thing.

Also, I don't recall you speaking to my previous question about the potential pipeline through Pakistan into India. Do you know anything about it?



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

I know your sour that china had to develop its own manned spaceflight capability because nobody let the chinese into the"manned spaceflight playgroup"..aww...my sympathies...



HELLO???????????

Are you insane?

A guy has no money to buy a car and had to beg friends to have a ride, but same time, he is lauging at another guy who has cars: "Hey, I am sympathy about you, you have to buy your own car, you see, I donot have to buy a car, I can just take a seat in my friend's car". Hello? your businessman friend will give you a free ride? The truth is you paid lots to "enjoy the show" and "earn your stupid face" but leave no mony to buy enough paper to clean your ass!!!! And now everybody can smell you! You pathetic! Russian and American just treated you really as funny monk and fool you around.

You cannot be cured, man, you are too "INDIAN" to be cured. You really get problem in your logic. I will tell this to all my friends, really nice joke you have made for us today.



[edit on 21-1-2005 by proteinx]

[edit on 21-1-2005 by proteinx]

[edit on 21-1-2005 by proteinx]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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No proteinx I cannot be "cured" by your "birdsnestoup" remedies, its okay, but you cannot prove we paid the russians to send that guy up, just like you cannot prove that the Shenzhou is a mimicry of the soyuz..etc.etc.

Revenge
, I agree that the backfire is not in the same class as the lancer, the black jack is..however my point was Russia doesn't go chucking strategic bombers to anyone...

I did a bit of research to confirm your cosmonauts facts and came up with a few interesting things,
the first blackman(not caucasian) in space was a cuban, some mendez fellow...don't know whether all those chaps were rewarded "hero of the Soviet Union"...
I still cannot figure out why france sent its first man up with the soviets rather than the americans, that too at the height of the cold war
The history of Canada(in militaristic terms), as you put it, is of the likes of,"been there-done that", very interesting to me..
The exploits of Canada in the ISS are reknowned, the robotic arm..what is the DaVinci/Arrow bit??
And what are the satellite building industreis/capabilites of Canda..this is my "get to know canada thread"


As for the pipeline, it is a means of bringing the 2 nations (3 actually) together, although Iran has left the intricacies to be bilaterally decided by India and Pakistan, which will take ages IMO...a good move though, if it can be protected well as it will run through the most-terroist infested regions on the planet..





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