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posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by butters30
So whats wrong with being raised in a day? I was raised in a dya that took myself and my "class" over 12 hours. You have to be some kind of devoted to sit through 12 hours of lecture and "play" Though I didnt wait 3 months to attain master mason I dont feel shorted or that I am without knowlage of the craft. Just short on time also I know all the brotheres very well in my lodge and had so for a few years. The waiting proccess for my raising took nearly 3 months.


Actually, I agree there's nothing wrong with it. Some Masons merely feel that that process is not the best way to do things. However that's how the Scottish Rite works, and frankly the Mason in a day process does actully seem to result in Masons who are very dedicated to the Craft. In some instances more so than a Mason who took the long way. Many states have seen postive results because of this system, and many states continue this. What I don't like about it is when Grand Lodges seem to run what seems like "cattle drives" with thousands of people made Master Masons in just a couple days in competions with each other. It doesn't happen everywhere but there are a couple states that do this. Some Lodges merely use it as a tool for mere membership numbers. Again many lodges are like this, and it is a very negative side affect of that system. The Masons that result of that system however should not be looked down upon. Any Mason, that is recognizable as such, made in a day or a year, is equally a brother.




posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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In my state we don't have "all the way in a day". We do however offer what is refered to as "Blue Lightning" which after your initiated (as normal) the next two degrees are confered in one day. I took that path myself. I too do not feel that I was "shorted". When I joined it was a busy time in my life and unfortunately I did not have the time to devote to all of the degree work.

I had spoke at length with some of the "old timers" in my lodge (some holding Grand Lodge offices) about this. They actually liked the idea. Saying that altho it does take away from some of the experience, it does however allow you to become an active member that much quicker. I can't remember exactly, but when we went throught it there were 20+ people made MM's that day. Not all from my lodge, but from the surrounding area.

But I can surely say, that I have never been looked down upon or ridiculed for my choice. I know there are "traditionalists" that feel it belittles the experience, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that given the same choice when they joined many would've made the same choice I did.

To me it's not how you became a brother...it's that you *are* a brother.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:55 PM
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I don't look down at any Mason, whether he went through a one day program or took over 3 months to become a Master Mason. The success of the program all depends on the lodge. If a lodge has good leaders and members that are knowledgeable and helpful when it comes to education, the candidate will get the most out of it. I would be interested to see how many Master Masons go on to be officers in the line.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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I held a chair (not an elected officer) the very next year. I had to all but give it up due to my wife having premie twins
Not because the Lodge asked me to, but because I didn't feel right holding a spot when I couldn't be there all the time. Also, I know of a few "one day"'ers that have held similiar posts in a short amount of time. In my area (very rural) most of our members are older and are eager to get young people involved and learning as quickly as they want.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by Golfie
I held a chair (not an elected officer) the very next year. I had to all but give it up due to my wife having premie twins
Not because the Lodge asked me to, but because I didn't feel right holding a spot when I couldn't be there all the time. Also, I know of a few "one day"'ers that have held similiar posts in a short amount of time. In my area (very rural) most of our members are older and are eager to get young people involved and learning as quickly as they want.



But doesn't it kinda take away the feeling of satisfaction and importance that you get when you worked hard to earn something? That, to me, is what makes the degree of Master Mason so "sublime". You're no longer and eap, or an fc... you're a true a tried MASTER OF YOUR CRAFT. I don't know of any other crafts where masters are made is as short of a time.

The only reason this is being done is to up numbers and, in my opinion, there's a million other things that can be done first and foremost to achieve that purpose.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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In the UK, the consitutions state that no more than one degree can be conferred to a candidate in a space of 4 weeks.

I think this is where some of the disagreement comes from, alot of Freemasons have been involved in the craft for years with this ruling in place.

Not saying it's wrong, but some times it can take time for change.

I guess for a firm judgement you'd have to get a few to do it both ways and see what benefits the craft most.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Quote: " Freemason saying "join the Illuminati"?

This thread is probably down to a Troll"

I know right - so many Posers. I think that there is defiantly a well Organized Illuminati Witch Hunt going on!

Hi guys - I am a Mason - how do I become "Illuminati" - HA, HA, HA, HA!


Nice Try!



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Hi guys - I am a Mason - how do I become "Illuminati" - HA, HA, HA, HA!

Nice Try!

its not immposible on the face of it, he's already explained that he was part of an accelerated program and simply doesn't know much about the system. Masonry is, apparently, if nothing else, a large and complex system. This fellow explained why he didn't ask his other lodgemen, and apparently just thinks that the illuminati are an actual group. Lots of people think that they are. Heck, this guy is saying that he is a freemason and that he has a rite, like the scottish rite, that is called the Illuminati Rite. Probably bollocks for many reasons, but the idea remains that an apparently relatively unexperienced freemason could reasonably think that there is a masonic group called the Illuminati.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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No my friend "Illuminati" is what happens when you join a
*Mystical Fraternity* like "FreeMasonry" were there is a REQUIREMENT that you have to believe in a
"Higher Power" & you say that you do & they let you in - But it turns out that you are in fact an ATHEIST & are just using it to spread a Political Agenda!

Are you then surprised that Masonry is so complex? How can you approach an Organization & say that you want to join & just expect to be accepted right away (Any Organization - let alone Secret ones). You have to Prepare to be TESTED in all sorts of ways - you HAVE to be expected to
Pledge Loyalty - you HAVE to Earn Trust! There are NO short cuts - if you want in then be prepared to do the Work & Pay the Dues!

ATHEISM is the Belief that NO GOD or HIGHER POWER EXISTS BTW!

Saying that "Man is a part of God" or "God is a part of Man" is
NOT the SAME Thing! You acknowledge a "Supreme Being" when you say this!


[edit on 20-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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why does everyone feel the need to look for others for answers.to religions,schools,friends,societies..
hint..look with in..throw the questions out there with in your conscious..enter the place of power..in silence...when you are ready..no help from others..only then will the secrets be revealed...it makes me sad..to see everyone searching outside...that is where the problem began...the parasite of the planet..the dream of the planet..burst out of the bubble..step off the tuna boat..i am amazed that everyone looks like a part of a herd..
i answer to no one and seek no new landscapes..just look thru new eyes..keep an open mind...stop thinking
greenmans mind



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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hint each of us is a frequency...god like
give up control...has nothing to do with control...thats were we are all strayed
the world is you dream it...what you think/feel you will attract...
be careful not what you wish for,but how you wish for it...
i am not a mason or any of that other crap...and i have found answers and done things beyond our perceptions...
escape from the prisons of your mind..only it is our obstacle..be free
greenmans mind



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by greenmansmind
...i am amazed that everyone looks like a part of a herd..
i answer to no one and seek no new landscapes..just look thru new eyes..keep an open mind...stop thinking

...i am not a mason or any of that other crap...and i have found answers and done things beyond our perceptions...

greenmans mind

Nice to see that you stil have time to post on ATS after reaching enlightenment.






[edit on 2005/1/20 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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you think there is no time when you reach enlightenment.....to exist amonst the world..you need to keep a foot in the box on occasion.......to say there is no time or think you are above the rest because you are enlightened..is not being enlightend...i wanted to see what everyone is wasting there time on..i found it to be amusing....
everyone is so distracted by outer stimuli
everything you need to know sits in the soul...
i dont think many have any idea what it is like to be enlightened...
at first one who thinks they are enlightened..seem so enlightened..and then when they are enlightened..they dont seem so at all..



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by greenmansmind
you think there is no time when you reach enlightenment.....to exist amonst the world..you need to keep a foot in the box on occasion.......to say there is no time or think you are above the rest because you are enlightened..is not being enlightend...i wanted to see what everyone is wasting there time on..i found it to be amusing....
everyone is so distracted by outer stimuli
everything you need to know sits in the soul...
i dont think many have any idea what it is like to be enlightened...
at first one who thinks they are enlightened..seem so enlightened..and then when they are enlightened..they dont seem so at all..


yup, this shows it for sure, I can see your a holder of elite esoteric knowledge but this post, uh huh, yup uhuh



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Amusing, quite amusing indeed.

Free2be keep on searching and you will find, the truth is out there-lol

Shame about the knowledge here though, I see more than two trolls on this thread.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

But doesn't it kinda take away the feeling of satisfaction and importance that you get when you worked hard to earn something? That, to me, is what makes the degree of Master Mason so "sublime". You're no longer and eap, or an fc... you're a true a tried MASTER OF YOUR CRAFT. I don't know of any other crafts where masters are made is as short of a time.


You know, I did feel that way. And had apprehentions on how the lodge would "recieve" me. Thus why I consulted a bunch of the "older" members before I took that path. They recognized that people in this day and age don't always have the time to devote that is needed due to work/home/etc. At the time I fell in to that category. Do I regret it? No. Would I do it that way again? Depends on the situation at that time.




The only reason this is being done is to up numbers and, in my opinion, there's a million other things that can be done first and foremost to achieve that purpose.


This is true. But from my discussion with GL officers in my state, they looked at how many people had made it to eap or fc and never made the final step. Most when asked why citing that they "didn't have the time to devote to it". So I don't think it's a "recruiting" technique. We don't require it nor push it on the candidate. Just offer it as an alternative.

Again ours doesn't include the initiation just fc and mm.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Golfie

Originally posted by sebatwerk

But doesn't it kinda take away the feeling of satisfaction and importance that you get when you worked hard to earn something? That, to me, is what makes the degree of Master Mason so "sublime". You're no longer and eap, or an fc... you're a true a tried MASTER OF YOUR CRAFT. I don't know of any other crafts where masters are made is as short of a time.


You know, I did feel that way. And had apprehentions on how the lodge would "recieve" me. Thus why I consulted a bunch of the "older" members before I took that path. They recognized that people in this day and age don't always have the time to devote that is needed due to work/home/etc. At the time I fell in to that category. Do I regret it? No. Would I do it that way again? Depends on the situation at that time.




The only reason this is being done is to up numbers and, in my opinion, there's a million other things that can be done first and foremost to achieve that purpose.


This is true. But from my discussion with GL officers in my state, they looked at how many people had made it to eap or fc and never made the final step. Most when asked why citing that they "didn't have the time to devote to it". So I don't think it's a "recruiting" technique. We don't require it nor push it on the candidate. Just offer it as an alternative.

Again ours doesn't include the initiation just fc and mm.



Sigh, I can certainly see the point... it's just a shame IMHO. Maybe if the eap and fc degrees weren't used so much as preparations for becoming an MM, and people were glad to simply be an eap or fc... maybe we should increase the privileges of those degrees, so people don't have to feel like they should be in a hurry to become a Master Mason...?

Just a thought, I guess. I mean, if everyone is a Master Mason, then what makes that degree so exalted? If everyone is special, no one is special...


[edit on 20-1-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerkmaybe we should increase the privileges of those degrees, so people don't have to feel like they should be in a hurry to become a Master Mason...?


What privileges? Now, I don't expect you to mean 'access to the holy grail' or 'you get to hold the virgin down during the sacrifice', but what privileges? Purely honorary ones? Research access?



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by sebatwerkmaybe we should increase the privileges of those degrees, so people don't have to feel like they should be in a hurry to become a Master Mason...?


What privileges? Now, I don't expect you to mean 'access to the holy grail' or 'you get to hold the virgin down during the sacrifice', but what privileges? Purely honorary ones? Research access?


Well, for example, only Master Masons are allowed to vote on lodge issues such as officer elections. Stated meetings are held on the 3rd degree, so only MMs may attend. Maybe if we increased participation privileges for Entered Apprenitce and Fellowcraft Masons, nobody would be in such a hurry to become a Master Mason.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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Does it cost anything to become a MASON or FREEMASON
(sorry due to lack of knowledge unable to tell the difference)

As in to you have to make a finacial contribution every now and then ?

I.E when you attend a lodge

I am interested in finding out more but never seem to be any wiser
regardless of what i read



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