LGBT activists enraged over beach patrol bathroom email

a reply to: dragonridr

Please don't belittle the issue. And please don't use slippery slope argument.

Anyway people don't all of sudden one day feel like a woman or a man. That's not how it works. Have you ever felt like a woman one day?

No one is trying to impose their beliefs on others. It has never been a problem for years and years until the Fundies made it a problem. If it's anyone who is imposing their beliefs on others, it's the Fundies.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

By the joke you mean the "we are not Target" part?
If so: as i already stated before: this is a factual statement. They are the beach patrol, not a mall. And according to Captain Arbin nobody working at the beach patrol complained about the email.
So are people asking to ban factual statements nowadays?

I am still confused. might have to do with the fact, that i suffer from serious sleep deprivation, slept about 3 hours total in the last three days.

a reply to: svetlana84

I didn't see anyone wanting to ban it. It might be "factual" but it is meant as a joke and they made sure of that when they made it public.

Todd Starnes always make issues out of non-issues. He tend to use hyperboles and lie. He has been fired for lying before.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: dragonridr

Please don't belittle the issue. And please don't use slippery slope argument.

Anyway people don't all of sudden one day feel like a woman or a man. That's not how it works. Have you ever felt like a woman one day?

No one is trying to impose their beliefs on others. It has never been a problem for years and years until the Fundies made it a problem. If it's anyone who is imposing their beliefs on others, it's the Fundies.

And you know this how actually knew a trans in college you wouldnt know it most of the time. In fact was a good friend for almost two years before u found out he likes to dress in women's clothes. But thus same guy also loved wearing fotball jerseys to the point we teased him about it. Not all trans want to dress as a woman all the time or for that matter a guy all the time depends on how they feel. And if they want to go through the trouble it's quite an ordeal I had no clue but it would take him a couple of hours.

Now of course we have everyone wanting special privileges today what planet have you been on?? Guys aren't allowed to just walk into women's locker rooms though I remember a time in high school I'd have killed for that opertunity. But that aside we have goten to the point where women dont feEl safe using public restrooms like are women life guards who O viouslt had a problem with guys being in the ladies room. If they didn't then management wouldn't have gottwn involved and tell the guys to stay out. Not every woman is the same and nit every woman want guys of any kind in the ladies room

Since it doesn't involve me directly I could care less other than the fact I have to listen to the wife complain about how stupid this is and how a ladies room is supposed to be for women. I sometimes irratate her because I'll say things like used to be or she will say she's going to the ladies room and I'll ask if she wants me to go with her. Yes I can't help it but on a more serious note several people are seeking acceptance on society in there view tollerance isn't enough well from some they will never get acceptance and those people shouldn't have to they have rights to.

Ps it's hilarious how people are getting bent out of shape over which bathroom they can use sorry if you can't see that.

a reply to: dragonridr

Your friend was a transvestite, not a transgender person. Most transvetites have enough respect not to use women's bathrooms.

But anyway no transgender people were involved in this story so it's an non-issue anyway. It's just a part of Todd's agenda. I've read enough of Todd's opinion pieces and his comment sections on Fox News to know that he tend to use hyperboles and he lies all the time.

Use the bathroom you have always used . Is that too much to ask. We have unisex ones at work and they make great offices because you can lock the door and take a nap on the couch. we need more.

perhaps the city could place a porta potty for those so biased they cant share public facilities... that the public has actually paid for... making them pay for being a part of the public is called discrimination. These people are real living breathing people and hence, public. Having discrimination is a private matter not secular... so making private matters of bias and discrimination legal and enforcible; is abuse of authority... and not constitutionally legal. Thats of course federal yet being a public beach, with federal funding and protection... it over rides the states constitutional grounds to say otherwise. Its a state over reaching its authority or power over the public... doing such says: youre not welcome here, regardless of ones citizenship... born there or not. All naturalized or born citizens have, such inalienable rights.

I just read this user comment on the Washingtonpost, by user MongoNYC

I'm a New York attorney that now heads the legal department of a multinational firm. Having lived through numerous litigations where the outcome turned on a few unfortunate emails, I'm keenly aware how poorly-considered comments in an email to co-workers or friends can later be construed as insensitive, offensive or even illegal. As a result, I’ve spent much of my career counseling clients, and now, colleagues, on the need to write every email assuming it would later appear in a court proceeding (or, as in this case, the Washington Post).

That said, I don’t expect the Captain of the Ocean City Beach Patrol to be attuned to those risks and certainly don’t believe a career devoted to public service should in any way be tarnished by one imprudent email. For purposes of full disclosure, my view is informed by my personal experiences with Captain Arbin, who was an officer when I was a lifeguard on the OCBP nearly 30 years ago. He was then, and remains now, an extremely knowledgeable, professional and devoted public servant. In my view, he's the individual best qualified to lead the group that protects our families every day and Ocean City officials should refuse to pander to the demands of groups and individuals who have suffered no harm

That s the world we live in now, we have to consult a lawyer for every word we release.
Because of people fighting for tolerance.

This case has nothing to do with a transgender person. It has to do with someone on this guy's staff taking notice of his comments making use of a sociopolitical hot button issue that is of important concern to transgender people as his way of being humorous and clever at the expense of others. Apparently, someone on his staff found it off color enough to forward it to The Baltimore Sun and if Faux News hadn't picked up the story as a way of inflaming their predominantly right leaning audience with outrage against PC and indirectly transgender issues, we'd probably never have heard about it.

Personally, I don't think this guy's minor faux pas warrants national crucifixion but I suspect he and other managers in the organization might be facing some sensitivity or cultural competency training as a way of soothing the ruffled feathers of those within his group that did take offense. An alleged news organization latching on to this story as part of an agenda and members here with their own crusades, I find to be far more unsettling than what this guy said.

By comparison, what Arbin did say is absolutely trivial to some of the ignorant and ill-informed comments in this thread and every other thread here speaking of transgender issues. Statistics show that in this country, more people claim to have seen a ghost (18%) than claim to have met or known a transgender person (16%) so it's no wonder there is so much fear and ignorance and confusion about who trans people are and what they are like but that is no excuse for outright hateful and stupid close-minded comments expressed by many on this board. For a community that likes to think they are somehow enlightened or a cut above, I find some of the comments here reprehensible, malicious in intent and flatly pathetic.

originally posted by: svetlana84
I just read this user comment on the Washingtonpost, by user MongoNYC

I'm a New York attorney that now heads the legal department of a multinational firm. Having lived through numerous litigations where the outcome turned on a few unfortunate emails, I'm keenly aware how poorly-considered comments in an email to co-workers or friends can later be construed as insensitive, offensive or even illegal. As a result, I’ve spent much of my career counseling clients, and now, colleagues, on the need to write every email assuming it would later appear in a court proceeding (or, as in this case, the Washington Post).

That said, I don’t expect the Captain of the Ocean City Beach Patrol to be attuned to those risks and certainly don’t believe a career devoted to public service should in any way be tarnished by one imprudent email. For purposes of full disclosure, my view is informed by my personal experiences with Captain Arbin, who was an officer when I was a lifeguard on the OCBP nearly 30 years ago. He was then, and remains now, an extremely knowledgeable, professional and devoted public servant. In my view, he's the individual best qualified to lead the group that protects our families every day and Ocean City officials should refuse to pander to the demands of groups and individuals who have suffered no harm

That s the world we live in now, we have to consult a lawyer for every word we release.
Because of people fighting for tolerance.

I would amend that. If true tolerance were all we were actually fighting for, we would not have to worry about how every little word we use or statement we make could be perceived by everyone else in every conceivable way, shape, or form.

However, this man is very correct. These days, what you intended with your communication no longer matters. In other words, you may not have intended to be hateful or disrespectful at all with any of it. But it no longer matters because these days all that matters with anything you do or say is its impact. In other words, if you accidentally make someone feel bad ... then you are the bad guy.

This creates an oppressive environment, not a tolerant one.

I can't know what will set anyone else off, and they can't know what will set me off. All it takes is for me to claim that someone made insensitive remarks or made insensitive actions and that person gets in trouble, no matter what they were thinking or intending. No one can actually be safe, ever, in such an environment, not even the passive aggressives who thrive in it.

Face it, we aint just ever going to get along.
If it isn't some moron trying to hurt someone because they are different its someone else trying to puppet everyone who isn't sufficiently different.

Tell you what, I go through life thinking other people who ride bikes are generally ok.
People who don't are in the "yet to prove themselves" pile.

I don't treat cage drivers badly per se, but I don't let them get into a position where I "have" to trust them until I actually know them.

I cut other bikers a bit more slack because we already have one choice in common.

Most of the time I don't have much at all to do with cagers, maybe all the LBGT people who find so much upsetting about people who don't fit in with them in the same way?

It would sure save everyone a whole lot of needless grief.

(I will say though, if someone is being deliberately nasty to you, then feel free to ignore all the above. The gloves are off when people take it upon themselves to bring you down).

originally posted by: SprocketUK

. . . maybe all the LBGT people who find so much upsetting about people who don't fit in with them in the same way?

Maybe they just want Equal Rights.

Out of 50 states in America, only 18 have LGBT non-discrimination laws/protection.

Others are pushing laws that they can refuse service to LGBT - - just because God says so.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If true tolerance were all we were actually fighting for, we would not have to worry about how every little word we use or statement we make could be perceived by everyone else in every conceivable way, shape, or form.

The lifeguard in charge is a civil servant.

He works for LGBT people, as well as everyone else.

He is required to accommodate all citizens.

He is not in a position where ignorance is OK - - or to not understand why what he said was wrong.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Annee

I'd like to correct something most people have no problem accepting difrent people. What people object to is when someone who's difrent tries to impose thier beliefs on others.

Let me know when the Fundamental Christian Right stops trying to impose their beliefs on others.

LGBT just want Equal Rights.

Out of 50 states in America, only 18 states have anti-discrimination laws for LGBT.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SprocketUK

. . . maybe all the LBGT people who find so much upsetting about people who don't fit in with them in the same way?

Maybe they just want Equal Rights.

Out of 50 states in America, only 18 have LGBT non-discrimination laws/protection.

Others are pushing laws that they can refuse service to LGBT - - just because God says so.

Annee, I could have written that better, "Treat them in the same way."

I get your point about equality, I really do. but how is this guy denying anyone equal rights? His letter (as was reported) was aimed at a bunch of males who identify themselves as such. Who was he denying equality to? No one, he simply enforced a standard of behaviour through a letter that tried not to sound too harsh and impersonal.



And just because a certain brand of Christians are morons who can't separate their religion from the modern world they live in, is that any excuse at all to widen the net of ill feeling? Focussing on this bloke distracts people from the real problem children in society.

originally posted by: svetlana84
a reply to: Annee

I realised that you are an atheist and trekkie, like me. we have common grounds.

As well i don't find any people icky.
Unfortunately i still don't fully understand your standpoint.

I'm done with the "icky".

I don't believe for one second you don't understand what I'm referring to.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
. . . how is this guy denying anyone equal rights? His letter (as was reported) was aimed at a bunch of males who identify themselves as such. Who was he denying equality to? No one, he simply enforced a standard of behaviour through a letter that tried not to sound too harsh and impersonal.

Someone made this letter public, didn't they?

He is a public servant. His derogatory reference to Target is not missed. How many people did he pass this attitude on to?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ketsuko
If true tolerance were all we were actually fighting for, we would not have to worry about how every little word we use or statement we make could be perceived by everyone else in every conceivable way, shape, or form.

The lifeguard in charge is a civil servant.

He works for LGBT people, as well as everyone else.

He is required to accommodate all citizens.

He is not in a position where ignorance is OK - - or to not understand why what he said was wrong.

The lifeguard in charge made a communication to his employees, not the general public. As far as this story has let us know, he did not have any trans employees, so telling the men to go back into their own locker room was fully appropriate or do you think it inappropriate to tell men who identify as men to stay out of the women's locker room?

It is not hateful to make an internal communication to your own employees addressing them and their needs that does not take into account that 5,001 and one victim groups that your employees do not actually encompass.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SprocketUK
. . . how is this guy denying anyone equal rights? His letter (as was reported) was aimed at a bunch of males who identify themselves as such. Who was he denying equality to? No one, he simply enforced a standard of behaviour through a letter that tried not to sound too harsh and impersonal.

Someone made this letter public, didn't they?

He is a public servant. His derogatory reference to Target is not missed. How many people did he pass this attitude on to?

Maybe someone wants the head lifeguard's job and felt ginning up a fake controversy was the way to get it?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SprocketUK
. . . how is this guy denying anyone equal rights? His letter (as was reported) was aimed at a bunch of males who identify themselves as such. Who was he denying equality to? No one, he simply enforced a standard of behaviour through a letter that tried not to sound too harsh and impersonal.

Someone made this letter public, didn't they?

He is a public servant. His derogatory reference to Target is not missed. How many people did he pass this attitude on to?

Hell, you ever think the Target reference was made simply because it is so well known now? I live in the UK and I heard about it.

Some people just like to stir things up, the point remains though, is this bloke really one of the people making life rubbish for LGBT people? Would he leave someone drowning because they were different? Would he refuse to give a job to someone who is different? Or enforce some kind of harmful bathroom rule? I haven't seen any allegations of such behaviour.