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Bill Maher Criticizes Liberal Support of Islam

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posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:04 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

The whole problem is that western society and even Russia is whore to the dollar. Moral right and wrong goes out of the window when resources and money is needed.

If we where not so weak technology and trade could have been used to push for equality and change in other countries. Either follow these principles or be dis allowed to trade. Think about how US, Russia and China could have pushed all Muslim societies if they stopped playing the Sunni vs Shia sides.
edit on 18-6-2016 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:04 AM
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Bill has been asked on multiple occasions which is worse, Islam or Christianity and he always says Islam.

He's a bit extremist in that sense, but he isn't wrong about how far the religion of Islam needs to come in order to conform to what is acceptable in the 21st century. Christianity only starting coming around in the last like..60 years.

Before that there were plenty of really really really terrible things happening in the name of Christians.

Islam will have it's own schism and revolution at some point, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened already.

Hit or miss for me with Bill, some weeks I love his show, other times I just wanna punch him in his big face.

~Tenth



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:10 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

I generally agree with your points


Where's the moral outrage and where are the international politicians? Where's the political will that isolated South Africa or that steamrollered public opinion for the 2nd invasion of Iraq? Boycotts can go a long way towards generating change in societies like the Saudis.

Our relationship with the Saudis makes hypocrites of both sides imo.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky



The left-leaners won't accept that some Muslims are intolerant, bigoted and hateful.


We do actually but it's difficult to get to that online because there's no discussion of Islam, there's only accusations, lies, misconceptions and then defense against those things. It's entirely irrational to make blanket statements about 1.6 billion people.

Middle Easterners span a Left-Right paradigm just like the West... they go from militant extremist on the Right which includes Theocrats, bigots and xenophobes to peaceful pacifist and violent revolutionaries on the Left all with varying degrees of religiosity and even atheism.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:15 AM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower

Islam will have it's own schism and revolution at some point, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened already.


~Tenth


Sorry but I do not think it will ever change, I find Muslims to be at the forefront of radical thinking. It is almost impossible to have a rational modern conversation regarding their religion as they believe it so fundamentally. Most Christians I find can have a open mind but I personally do not think the same can be said for our Muslim Brothers and sister..


RA



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:19 AM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

Every spiritual idea should be criticized and examined regardless of who wrote it.



Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.


If the spiritual idea is good it cannot manifest bad behavior. Humam religions are such a mess. The objective good and bad becomes subjective bad and good warping the mind into insanity instead of awareness.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: slider1982


It is almost impossible to have a rational modern conversation regarding their religion as they believe it so fundamentally.


I would disagree, I've spoken to hundreds of Muslims all around the world who are more middle of the road than most Christians I know.

It's a matter of setting as well, there's stigma in the Muslim community with being a moderate. Remember that extremists tend to have louder voices, and more power to drown out or remove dissidents.

Islam is no different, radical clerics and radical members of the church will often harass and even harm moderate Muslims for not following the group think mentality they have.

We see this in Christianity today in certain sects like Mormons or more extreme examples such as Scientology.

In time it will come. I don't mean we put up with it without doing anything until then, of course not, but the problem of Islam will only be resolved within Islam itself. No religion ever had a 'come to Jesus' moment that was instigated by another religion.

~Tenth
edit on 6/18/2016 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)


ETA: As an example of change occurring over a long time, look at what the Church of England said this week, let's whole hardheartedly accept LGBT into our church. That's an incredible about face from say 10 or even 5 years ago.
edit on 6/18/2016 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:23 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

Yeah I know some left-leaners do


What I was trying to say is there are subtleties and commonalties across the political spectrum. The problem I keep noticing is a reluctance for various sides to concede a point for fear of 'losing face' or losing ground.

Agreeing on some points with a political opponent is more mature than obtusely insisting everything they say is wrong or worse...'evil.' For whatever reason, we live in times where a lot of people want a reductionist outlook that excludes more people than it can ever include.

It's 'you Liberals, and 'you Conservatives' or 'the Muslims.' From some ATS threads, it looks like the world can be split into three groups.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:33 AM
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A representative of the Mosque local to me (East London) refuses to shake the hand of any female even from the council. This type of thing is very common where I am, and do not get me started on the Sharia patrols..


RA



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:38 AM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

It did... then wars happened. Imagine if the US were shelled out like Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Palestine... and try to imagine who those that would try to rise up with their followers to take over would be. We can't look at Islam through the same lens that we did and do look at Christianity when its homelands haven't had the luxury of safety to get all philosophical.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:41 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: onequestion

A lot of people are so engaged in the war between Left and Right that they won't concede anything the other side could take as a victory.

The right-leaners won't accept that some of their fellow-travellers are genuine racists. The left-leaners won't accept that some Muslims are intolerant, bigoted and hateful. The right-leaners won't accept that moderate Muslims exist and left-leaners won't accept that some Muslims would slit their throats and then their children's throats.

Christianity didn't give women equal rights, political protest did. It didn't drive civil rights, but those same rights can be described as essentially 'Christian values.' Equal rights and civil rights have all been taken from the powerful; they've never been gifted.

Saudi society is a peaceful one, but it's maintained under a system that most of us find repellent. It's like a little flag of hypocrisy for us in the west and, ironically, elements of both left and right belief-systems are evident in Saudi culture. It shows that we're selective in who we're friends with and who we feel obliged to 'liberate.'

There's obviously a dollar value to our morality...and the Saudis.


Apparently it requires a nice little package of understanding, intelligence and guts to make the comments you have here.
It's evident those are not assets closed minded people on both sides have -- or even want enough to try and make a fair minded assessment.

edit on 6/18/2016 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:42 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

Oh I agree, I make the point often that Islam has no moderate leaders because of the sheer number of civilians who are killed.

Most are women and children. I think the median age in Afghanistan is what like...22 or something?

That means no elders, only extremists for them to follow and that's a direct result of Western and European military intervention that caused hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties.

Women were walking around in pencil skirts during the 70's in Afghanistan. They were studying to become lawyers and doctors. Only once the power vacuum was created by the golf war did that all change.

~Tenth



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:45 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

The reason I never concede is because to me it means conceding to the notion that the rights of Muslims in the US are debatable and conditional, I can't do that. It also means condoning the bombing and drone strikes that only contribute to extremism.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:53 AM
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I don't think liberals are saying that Islam is a perfect faith. They are just refusing to paint Muslims with a broad brush.

I am a moderate and I agree. I will judge people as whole individuals and not because of their religion.

Do we have to weed out and expose extremists within Islam in America? Yes. We also need to do the same with far right christian white nationalists. But I refuse to call all Muslims evil based on individual acts.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower



Islam will have it's own schism and revolution at some point, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened already.

Hit or miss for me with Bill, some weeks I love his show, other times I just wanna punch him in his big face.


Completely agree with this.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 07:08 AM
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imho...
the American / Western left (I don't think 'Liberal' defines them anymore) hates Christianity. Islam hates Christianity. thus, the leftists view Islam with favor. as since Muslims are a numerical minority in the west (as someone pointed out) the left figures they can exploit their 'victim' status to get their votes.
They are idiots as they don't realize that the Muslims hate them and if they take over all the pill parties and R-rated entertainment would get shut down and we saw in Orlando what Islam thinks of gays.

of course I'm talking about the extremists, not the moderate muslims.



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

You Christians MODERN Crusaders KILLED 0ver 1 Million Iraqis, 500,000 Afghanis and you're claiming how better you are?

F**** **F




edit on 18-6-2016 by mekhanics because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: ElGoobero
imho...
the American / Western left (I don't think 'Liberal' defines them anymore) hates Christianity. Islam hates Christianity. thus, the leftists view Islam with favor. as since Muslims are a numerical minority in the west (as someone pointed out) the left figures they can exploit their 'victim' status to get their votes.
They are idiots as they don't realize that the Muslims hate them and if they take over all the pill parties and R-rated entertainment would get shut down and we saw in Orlando what Islam thinks of gays.

of course I'm talking about the extremists, not the moderate muslims.


Why is it that so many "christians" claim marginalization by others, and think that we're all pro muslim?

1. I strongly dislike many self proclaimed "christians" because they spend so much time persecuting minorities and marginalizing anyone who dares have an opinion that's different from their own. You're free to go to church and live in a way consistent with your beliefs, but that right doesn't supersede the rights of other individuals. You don't need to believe in gay rights, you just need to allow them to live their lives as they see fit. You don't need to agree with abortion, you just don't have the right to make that decision for total strangers. Some of us are also repulsed by the constant victim mentality that so many christians try to play to their advantage. Where was the christian outrage when the christian pastor celebrated the shooting of 50 gays? THAT is what many of us despise.

2. You obviously hate muslims. Ironically, despite being a non-christian,I don't. I treat ALL people with respect until they personally give me reason to do otherwise. What I dislike is people that point to those with differing opinions and proclaim that we support the enemy. That we're "pro muslim." That we're idiots that are incapable of making our own decisions, and that we should defer to your judgement instead.

I get that you're terrified of the "dangerous, extremist muslims," but you're never going to resolve our differences by dividing society.

If only christians could learn tolerance and compassion for others...



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Islam has it's moderates - and it's zealots, and it's political opportunists. Same as Christians, Jews, Buddhists - any of the thousands of political parties worldwide. I imagine even the Baha'i have their squabbles

Polarization doesn't happen for no good reason - it's a process. Sometimes it's encouraged


Christianity didn't give women equal rights, political protest did. It didn't drive civil rights, but those same rights can be described as essentially 'Christian values.' Equal rights and civil rights have all been taken from the powerful; they've never been gifted.

Absolutely. This sort of thing doesn't get said enough. The same will happen in every society - but in it's own time. It will happen in Saudi Arabia too - but not necessarily as fast as the enlightened west demands. We seem to feel we've worked out all our issues - and somehow now we're in a superior position and should feel free to use what we see as their backwardness against them

Yes - I'm a liberal apologist because I call BS on our hypocrisy

You are right. There are women in Muslim countries (and no doubt more than a few feminist men) working on their issues even as we speak. There's a movement towards secularism too - against bigotry - for equal rights...how far will it go? Only time will tell, but somehow - it's as if nothing is ever real unless we notice it, instigate it, organize it and approve of it. This is the arrogance of our own culture

When I hear the backwards BS that comes out of people's mouths against our own feminists (male and female) , our own civil rights activists, our own secularists here in the enlightened west - I have to laugh to keep from crying

It gets to a point where we only hear the extremists - everything else is too quiet. But that's only for those of us that insist that the world is falling apart because of them...

Meanwhile - most people that are working for a better future for all of us just keep on quietly working - even when other people think they are ridiculously naive



posted on Jun, 18 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

Perhaps Bill criticizes liberal support of Islam because he doesn't understand what balance is. He thinks we should declare war on Islam - anything short of that is support

For a smart man - he is at times a complete idiot



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