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The God of John's gospel, the God of the Old Testament

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posted on Jun, 27 2016 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Anytime brother..


its a bit of work, but once you get used to it is pretty fast and easy...

spices up your replies too





posted on Jun, 27 2016 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

I screenshoted your answer. I hope it takes less time to upload a pic than it did to read how to do it.



posted on Jun, 27 2016 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

LMAO!

Its pretty quick...





posted on Jun, 27 2016 @ 11:55 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
Yes indeed, I accept that Christ is both God and man, as outlined in the definition of Chalcedon.
All I'm doing here is counteracting the suggestion that Jesus was offering a different God.



Ah, ok, good to know. Thanks for clarifying!! These days, have to ask.

So some are claiming that Jesus wasn't talking about the God of the OT?



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:29 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

that is correct...

And its been a position held by many since Jesus walked the earth... unfortunately most of them were exterminated during the first few hundred years of the church

Slandered in the church leaders writing and disposed of eventually... along with their writing

Few traces remained after about 400ad... but lucky for the world in 1948 we found a the Nag Hammadi library, before which only a few books survived.... Pistis sophia, and Thomas among the few




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 02:10 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

that is correct...

And its been a position held by many since Jesus walked the earth... unfortunately most of them were exterminated during the first few hundred years of the church

Slandered in the church leaders writing and disposed of eventually... along with their writing

Few traces remained after about 400ad... but lucky for the world in 1948 we found a the Nag Hammadi library, before which only a few books survived.... Pistis sophia, and Thomas among the few



You'll have to offer more details. Not familiar with those names.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 02:31 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
And its been a position held by many since Jesus walked the earth... unfortunately most of them were exterminated during the first few hundred years of the church

On the other hand, everybody in the New Testament, beginning with Jesus himself, takes it for granted that they are the same God.
The God of Jesus, the God of the Old Testament
It takes a lot of putting fingers in ears to insist on pretending otherwise. I'm willing to go through the rest of the Testament, demonstrating the point systematically, if that's what it takes.

If we want to know the reality of the famous Nag Hammadi library, all we need to do is look at your friend with the multiple accounts.
www.youtube.com...
Then it becomes clear that the writers were all people like him. They were the religious trolls of their time, using their fertile imaginations, lacking any sense of honesty or interest in the truth, motivated by the desire for self-entertainment combined with hostility towards the existing gospel.
When you venerate the gnostics, you are hero-worshipping Tony of San Diego.


edit on 28-6-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 02:41 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

thats understandable... its rare that Christianity teaches their flock about those they deemed heretic's in the past...

Gnosticism actually predates Christianity...

Basically a group of writers who believed that knowledge was the key to being saved. These writers had quite the following as well... so much so that the church found their ideas to be a threat to their ways. So each of the main writers were disposed of quietly... and their writing was destroyed as well.

There were many versions of their beliefs, though it wasn't a religion itself... just one of the many competing versions of Christianity in the first few centuries after Jesus died. When he came on the scene, the gnostics adopted his teaching along with the NT writers and sort of combined it with greek mythology minus their gods.

Each version of gnostic Christianity differs on their beliefs... but the main idea is that they believed that knowledge is what saves a person as i've stated... i believe it was Valentinus who believed that Jesus wasn't an actual physical being, just a spirit... and didn't even leave footprints when he walked

They didn't believe in the OT god at all, and believed that the "creator god" was evil, and so was the creation...but the spirit within all men was divine and directly from the true God who has NO name...

Jesus was the first born over all creation as it states in the gospels... but was not God but a product of the Father according to them.

Im sure you've heard of the Gospel of Thomas... most people have that read about religion unless you're strictly Christian in your reading... Pistis sophia is the biggest book in their writing, its supposed to be teaching directly from Jesus... could be but it was written somewhere in the second or third century

Thomas on the other hand has many parallels with the gospels... and its dating has always been up for debate... some believe it was actually the first written somewhere in the first century but its usually dated at the very least in the early second century.

The Nag Hammadi library was found in 1948 by a goat header apparently... found in a cave, in an ancient vase with tons of writing... it was clearly hidden because of the persecution of the gnostic movement in the few centuries after Christ. Any writing that differed from what the church wanted taught was destroyed in those days so some brilliant person buried what they could for some future generation to find... thank God

you can read all about it on the web...

and Here is the translations of what they found

www.gnosis.org...

fantastic reading




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


If we want to know the reality of the famous Nag Hammadi library, all we need to do is look at your friend with the multiple accounts.
www.youtube.com...
Then it becomes clear that the writers were all people like him. They were the religious trolls of their time, using their fertile imaginations, lacking any sense of honesty or interest in the truth, motivated by the desire for self-entertainment combined with hostility towards the existing gospel.
When you venerate the gnostics, you are hero-worshipping Tony of San Diego.


that is quite simply not true...

our friend is not a gnostic... and neither am i for that matter... but i most definately do have some "gnostic" leanings... we know little about the people that were considered gnostics back in those days... we have nothing but hostile witness accounts.

You can't generalize the entire group because of one troll on our forum... i've met many Christians here that were complete idiots, but i don't believe all Christians are the same

what we do know is that they were not "religious trolls" as you put it... they believed strongly in their ways.

ask yourself a question... Jesus had thousands of followers... and made disciples of many people

yet only 3 people wrote about him... ever think is possible that Jesus might have taught others... and maybe even gave them certain ideas that he left out in other situations?

I think its very possible


edit on 28-6-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:15 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

by the way.... what is up with that video?

i Hope that isn't you... is it???




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:18 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
That video was posted on this forum by a new poster who was quickly tagged (by Klassified) as another version of our multiple friend, and got himself banned again.
So that must the true face, what we can see of it, of gnosisisfaith.



edit on 28-6-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:21 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

no kidding??!!?!

Crazy stuff lol...

one thing though, "gnosisfaith" wasn't ever banned last time i saw his name... he just disapeared

And in his first or second appearance he did say he had at least one friend with him




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:25 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
I think some of the early accounts were only post-banned, as discipline for objectionable language. In those cases, I reckon he just abandoned them and started again.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:30 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Sounds good to me, its pretty obvious when he pops up...

So what are your thoughts on the discussion about the "cross" in the wilderness?

Im sure you'd agree with NuT, but i'd like to hear them




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:41 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
The early church were able to find the cross in all sorts of places. There's an even better example in Jacob blessing his grandchildren- Genesis ch48 v14 (watch what he's doing with his arms).
It's not the kind of thing I focus on, because I'm more of a words person. I look at what people are saying.
However, it is probably a mistake to underestimate God's ability to "plant" symbols in this way. John tells us that the High Priest Caiaphas made a prophecy about Jesus without even realising that he was doing it.



edit on 28-6-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:46 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


However, it is probably a mistake to understimate God's ability to "plant" symbols in this way. John tells us that the High Priest Caiaphas made a prophecy about Jesus without even realising that he was doing it.


Well im not saying it doesn't happen, i just don't believe this to be the case...

its a defensive position vs a symbol

One fit for travel and war... the other, not so much useful in any sense

Which prophesy are you referring to... verse please?


edit on 28-6-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 03:49 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
John ch11 vv49-52


edit on 28-6-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 04:08 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Interesting...

Though wouldn't that mean that he was to die to save Judaism?




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 04:17 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
No, because "the nation" in John's explanation doesn't mean Judaism.
It means the people, the human content of the nation.
For John, "perishing" is what follows from the broken relationship with God; so saving them from perishing, as the effect of the death of Jesus, involves healing that relationship.

Caiaphas was talking about the structure of the Jewish nation, but his words unknown to himself (which was my original point) had the additional meaning which John brings out.


edit on 28-6-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 04:41 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

alright...

so what was more important to you in your belief set?

His death, or what he taught?




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