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Contrails or Chemtrails? You decide.

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posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 08:46 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
a reply to: network dude

I was under the impression that those clouds were formed as a result of previous trails dispersing over time. Also the weather for my area looks pretty consistently sunny until Sunday or Monday when perhaps a storm or two is expected.


Perfect. 2 things.

1: the weather on the ground has absolutely no relevance to the temp at 30k feet. None at a all. You could be experiencing the biggest heat wave and 30k wouldn't feel a thing.

2: the fact that rain is predicted in a few days is correct. Persistent contrails frequently precede a cold front brining rain in. I'm sure others will correct me if I got that wrong.

So all is acting normally. You are just noticing it more now cuz there are far more flights and the newer jet engines are more prone to creating trails. Nothing sinister.




posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 08:54 AM
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Let me make this thread real simple, then you may go back to your donut.

Those are contrails amongst cirrus clouds.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: smarterthanyou

ok - why do you find it hard to accept that the images you post show contrails ?


The thickness of the trails, how wide they spread out, they should have evaporated somewhat over time but they persist.


Not if the air is saturated with respect to ice. Ice does not evaporate and cannot melt at those temperatures so it can only sublimate and that is impossible if the air is already saturated. There's just nowhere for it to go



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
a reply to: Zaphod58

Well lets say 20 to 30,000 feet, so based on these models it says 500mb (18k feet) is -10 Celcius, or 14 Fahrenheit at 06Z +10 aka 2AM + 10 hours = Noon. That seems difficult to believe but I suppose its correct.
Perhaps these are contrails. Then again I still say they shouldn't be that thick. There is also no other clouds in the sky anywhere and no planes flying around. I should've done this thread a few days ago when the sky was littered.


What time and date were the photos?



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: smarterthanyou

So I'm not claiming to know beyond a shadow of a doubt but you say you're willing to listen to alternative explanations.... While basically deeming con trails as itself being one of those.

Con trails are the natural explanation. My grandpa is 70 and knows they have always existed - even his father knew what con trails were though flight and travel were not as popular therefore they obviously were not as common.

Why do we have people taking decades of evidence that con trails exist and are natural ( well, naturally occurring from jet engines in high elevations) why is this a debate?

Genuine question by the way. Your pictures show nothing but if you have links, articles, etc I'd be glad to see them, even if it's some backwoods websites. This is a conspiracy forum and I'm not just denying your theory, but I've yet to see any evidence that I can logically agree with.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
I honestly see these types of trails regularly, moreso as summer has come into full swing. One wonders if it is done under the guise of "cooling the planet" or perhaps its because it is and has been the ideal time for weather manipulation? Or perhaps the bouncing radar beams or holograms are easier to produce in summertime (being somewhat facetious here but you get my drift).

I genuinely find it hard to believe these are contrails but am willing to listen to alternative explanations. Here are the photos I've taken just now. If you wish to check the weather and/or air temps, pressure etc. look at the weather for Syracuse, New York. This website should help you get an idea of the weather in my area, just look at the patterns directly over Central New York.

Make of these what you will! To be clear I'm not definitively saying these are one thing or another, just want to open a dialogue! I'm sure others have some they would like to add to this thread as well, so feel free!





Those are NOT contrails...



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: smarterthanyou
I honestly see these types of trails regularly, moreso as summer has come into full swing. One wonders if it is done under the guise of "cooling the planet" or perhaps its because it is and has been the ideal time for weather manipulation? Or perhaps the bouncing radar beams or holograms are easier to produce in summertime (being somewhat facetious here but you get my drift).

I genuinely find it hard to believe these are contrails but am willing to listen to alternative explanations. Here are the photos I've taken just now. If you wish to check the weather and/or air temps, pressure etc. look at the weather for Syracuse, New York. This website should help you get an idea of the weather in my area, just look at the patterns directly over Central New York.

Make of these what you will! To be clear I'm not definitively saying these are one thing or another, just want to open a dialogue! I'm sure others have some they would like to add to this thread as well, so feel free!





Those are NOT contrails...


How can you tell? They look like contrails



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:00 AM
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a reply to: mrthumpy

About 830AM this morning.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
a reply to: mrthumpy

About 830AM this morning.


Thanks

Good conditions for persistent contrails in your area then


edit on 17-6-2016 by mrthumpy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: Iscool

Could you explain why you believe that? you sound certain.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:09 AM
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The strange thing is that there was literally no other clouds in the sky except near these trails. Alas though I cannot deny that contrails could form in said weather conditions.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
a reply to: network dude

I was under the impression that those clouds were formed as a result of previous trails dispersing over time. Also the weather for my area looks pretty consistently sunny until Sunday or Monday when perhaps a storm or two is expected.


without seeding they sky before hand, we can't say, but how it works is, once the sky is saturated with wet air, and the temperatures are just right, (about -40c) then trails can form. When a jet flies by, it produces wet air just by the combustion process.


In complete combustion, the reactant burns in oxygen, producing a limited number of products. When a hydrocarbon burns in oxygen, the reaction will primarily yield carbon dioxide and water.

en.wikipedia.org...

so if the conditions are right for cloud/contrail formation, then when the jet flies into that air, it's exhaust gives that little push needed for trails to form, and if things stay like that, it will spread out into cirrus clouds.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
The strange thing is that there was literally no other clouds in the sky except near these trails. Alas though I cannot deny that contrails could form in said weather conditions.


the fact that the rest of the sky still had planes flying in it, but you only saw clouds and trails in this one area kind of solidifies this theory. That spot was right for formation and the other parts of the sky were not.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Temperature in the air here is -10 Celcius at 500mb. Still I grant the possibility.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: smarterthanyou

at 30-35,000 feet, it's usually -40 to -80c.
www.quora.com...
edit on 17-6-2016 by network dude because: bad spler



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I didn't look any higher than 500 but you are probably right. However if they departed from Syracuse International chances are they hadn't reached cruising altitude by the time they were where I was (38.5miles East of Syracuse). It's also possible these were planes flying out of central and western US and Canada eastbound.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: smarterthanyou


I genuinely find it hard to believe these are contrails but am willing to listen to alternative explanations.

Maybe its like, like birds migrating or meteor vapor trails?

Pretty sure its exhaust pollution from hi altitude combustion of jet fuel.


A contrail is not the actual "exhaust pollution", because that exhaust is for the most part invisible (or else we could see white contrails being formed 100% of the time by all planes at all altitudes --- and we don't).

A contrail, especially a persistent one, is water that condenses out of the invisible water vapor that is in the air and then freezes into a visible ice crystal. Granted, the invisible jet fuel exhaust particles started the visible contrail by giving that water vapor something to latch onto at first -- but after that, the water vapor latches onto other ice crystals and condenses and freezes, causing a chain reaction.

So the vast majority of the visible stuff in a persistent contrail is just normal water ice crystals (like a cirrus cloud). The original exhaust soot could be long gone (due to sublimating back into water vapor) from most of the persistent trails that you see, the kinds of trails that spread out to form, a cloud.

When a contrail spreads, it isn't the soot from the burnt fuel that is spreading, but rather the chain reaction of ice crystals causing water vapor to condense out of the air, creating more and more ice crystals. In that respect, a persistent contrail grows more than it spreads, although as it grows, some of the crystals that formed earlier sublimate into vapor, causing the growing contrail to also become less dense.



edit on 6/17/2016 by Box of Rain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: smarterthanyou
a reply to: network dude

Temperature in the air here is -10 Celcius at 500mb. Still I grant the possibility.


Temperature at 300mb was around -40C at the time



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: Box of Rain


So the vast majority of the visible stuff in a persistent contrail is just normal water ice crystals (like a cirrus cloud).

"The vast majority"? All visible contrails are visible because water vapor condenses on particualtes, namely jet exhaust.

But I get you, the 'vast majority' of the biosphere is benign. Its the little bits of toxins like heavy metals, aerosolized chemical compounds and pollutants in general that are causing all the health issues, not hi altitude water.



posted on Jun, 17 2016 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: smarterthanyou

They aren't coming from Syracuse. These would be flights to and from Atlanta and points South and West or from South and West.



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