Gun store owner: We called FBI before Orlando shooting

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: Boadicea

If what they are saying is true, at least the store owners did the right thing.

The store owners were being anti-Muslim. In this case, it seemed justified. But, what about all the other times the store called the FBI on some Muslim that amounted to nothing?

The reason the FBI didn't pay any attention to the call, is the same reason found in the story about "The Boy who cried Wolf".

After the boy calls wolf several times, and wastes everybody's time, when the real wolf comes, nobody pays attention.

a reply to: AMPTAH

But, what about all the other times the store called the FBI on some Muslim that amounted to nothing?

Have any proof of this happening or are you just assuming that they have done this?

a reply to: AMPTAH

Yes, being anti muslim...That's what it is.

Maybe the shop owner didn't want blood on his hands?

Maybe the shop owner was doing what has been asked of all of us: "If you see something, say something".

Anything to justify the failure of the feds right?

The said something so they must be racist or anti muslim..

Give me a break.

Law enforcement could have and should have stopped Mateen.

Bottom line is they blew it again.
The perp had been investigated twice and then this incident where he wanted to buy body armor.

And he was a muzzie?
And the authorities could not stop him?

All the red flags were their but they dropped the ball.

The bottom line is we are at war with radical Islam.

If they cant use a rifle or a pistol they will use some other destructive device.

Banning high capacity mags and or semi auto weapons wont do anything.

a reply to: Boadicea

Those investigations require the suspicion that a crime has taken place, once there's no evidence of a crime happening it needs to end.

There is very little the government could have done in this situation without throwing the Constitution out the window. People, even would be criminals still get due process and the right to purchase weapons.

originally posted by: Dutchowl
a reply to: Boadicea>>> So... we can't trust the government to keep us safe and they don't trust us to keep ourselves safe, so where does that leave everyone? We're paranoid of the government and they're paranoid of us. And we're both paranoid of moslems, except for Obama who is happy in his blissful ignorance.

Society needs to realize that the freedoms we have entail some risk. If we want access to the protections in the Constitution, then things like this are going to happen. Political protections often run counter to social protections.

a reply to: AMPTAH

The store owners were being anti-Muslim. In this case, it seemed justified. But, what about all the other times the store called the FBI on some Muslim that amounted to nothing?

The reason the FBI didn't pay any attention to the call, is the same reason found in the story about "The Boy who cried Wolf".

After the boy calls wolf several times, and wastes everybody's time, when the real wolf comes, nobody pays attention.

And you know this how?

Seems to me you're making some pretty ugly assumptions about these folks with absolutely no good reason in order to make the case that they were making some pretty ugly assumptions about the mass murderer... and ignoring that they did have good reason...

What's wrong with this picture???

originally posted by: AMPTAH
The store owners were being anti-Muslim.

Yet they were correct.

Trying to introduce a bias is self defeating. These people called not because he was "Muslim" (Question - Since being a Muslim means you are part of the Islamic religion, please explain to us how you know a person is Muslim). They called because of the items he wanted, the manner in which he was acting, his phone call, etc.

If they called simply because he "looked" suspicious with nothing else then you might, might, have an argument. In this case it was the culmination of several, legitimate, factors.

Also is there any particular reason you don't talk about this guy as being anti-american? anti-gay? anti-freedom? Anti-democracy? anti-infadels? or is it ok for them to have a bias yet its racist / what have you when the card is flipped?

a reply to: Aazadan

Everything you say is true as far as it goes. But the government does have the power (and responsibility) to also investigate those they suspect of planning and/or preparing to commit a crime -- reasonable suspicion and probable cause.

There is much that can be done without violating Constitutional rights if the will is there.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
the FBI's problem is he was a full citizen making legal purchases

I sure don't want to undermine anyone's rights, but it's also just good sense to take reasonable precautions for reasonable risks.

if you should be put under surveillance for buying something, maybe it should be illegal ?

Maybe. Or... if you have been under FBI surveillance for terrorist links and you try buying equipment used in terrorist attacks, maybe the authorities should pay attention.

I certainly do not want to take away anyone's rights, but on the flip side, if you are on a no-fly, fbi watch list, even as an American Citizen, you should not be allowed to buy firearms. To the NRA guys, I apologize, but this is just kind of common sense.

I mean, I don't count myself as "an NRA guy", but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Terrorist watch list or no fly list? = No guns. That being said though I can see where some might have reservations. Since it's Obama's FBI/ATF, I have no doubt in my mind that there are countless outspoken Conservatives who are on that list for no reason other than being outspoken Conservatives. I can easily see this law being used to punish those individuals.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Everything you say is true as far as it goes. But the government does have the power (and responsibility) to also investigate those they suspect of planning and/or preparing to commit a crime -- reasonable suspicion and probable cause.

There is much that can be done without violating Constitutional rights if the will is there.

That's enough to start an investigation, not maintain one. An investigation needs to find evidence of criminal activity or it can't continue.

A little more grist for the mill:

2013: Orlando Terrorist Threatened To Kill Fla. Sheriff And His Family, FBI Dismissed Threat

In 2013, Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen allegedly threatened to kill a Fla. sheriff’s deputy and his family, yet the FBI did not act upon the threat once it had been reported by the sheriff’s office... the incident occurred while Mateen — a licensed security professional with G4S Security — was hired as an extra patrolman at the St. Lucie County Courthouse.

The deputy in question allegedly made a comment about the Middle East which infuriated Mateen...

“Omar became very agitated and made a comment that he could have Al Qaeda kill my employee and his family,” he told the TC Palm Wednesday. “If that wasn’t bad enough, he followed it up with very disturbing comments about women and followed it up with very disturbing comments about Jews and then went on to say that the Fort Hood shooter was justified in his actions.”

Mascara stated the Sheriff’s Office requested Mateen be removed from his post and reported the threat to the FBI, who eventually concluded that “Mateen was not a threat.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Boadicea

The employee then refused to sell Mateen any amunition because they heard him speak arabic? Isn't Mateen Afghani? Why would he then speak arabic when he isn't arabic?

The specific quote at the article is that "Mateen asked for level 3 body armor, according to Abell, but was told the store didn't carry it. He then made a phone call and spoke in Arabic before asking for bulk ammunition, but employees did not sell it to him.

I believe placing a phone call after being told he could not buy the armor, and before he asked for the bulk ammunition, is suspicious in and of itself, indicating that he is not acting on his own behalf, and therefore raising red flags. Speaking in a foreign language -- rightly or wrongly identified as Arabic -- is another red flag.

It may be that the specific type of body armor he requested is uncommon or suspicious for some reason, or the quantity of ammunition. I wouldn't know... but I expect those who do it for a living would.

...most likely was not speaking arabic unless I am mistaken about Mateen's ethnicity, or he somehow learned arabic as a third or fourth language.

Given his two trips to Saudia Arabia -- about a year apart, one for 10 days and one for 8 days -- I think there's a pretty good chance he knows some Arabic. Probably not fluently, but well enough to converse.

What the Gun shop employees should be doing is treating every potential customer equally and as human beings, and looking more at how the customer carries themselves and be aware of any suspicious orders or tendencies.

I'm pretty sure they do, or they wouldn't have many customers -- at least not loyal, repeat customers. It says much that they put principles (and lives) before profit.

I believe placing a phone call after being told he could not buy the armor, and before he asked for the bulk ammunition, is suspicious in and of itself, indicating that he is not acting on his own behalf, and therefore raising red flags. Speaking in a foreign language -- rightly or wrongly identified as Arabic -- is another red flag.

IGHT.

You're right...this is absolutely suspicious.

In-fact this whole caper is turning more( I don't know the word to describe it) shady each day.

The FBI is getting as scary as the lame Obama and his obvious controlled reactions to all ISIS related stories.

We are really at the waters edge of something REAL SINISTER

Remember the FBI in the Boston marathon was acting weird in that case too.

Remember the witness they killed while interviewing him...


All of this adds up to big trouble

Just list these anomalies on this one:

Son of an Afghanistan well known political activist who supports the Taliban.
…Who was investigated by the FBI TWICE and works for a known Intelligence related security company and who has had known terrorist connections and traveled overseas to Saudi.

This looks like an FBI anti terror operation who the FBI was trying to lure into some act but somehow this went awry.

Usually the FBI stops the act and arrests the guy before he acts but something went terribly wrong here.


Similar to the first WTC bombing. The FBI was all over that with an informant inside the plot yet it still went down and people died.


I wouldn’t trust the FBI as far as Trump could throw Chris Christie across Giant stadium

Well apparently the guy had a gun license and worked as a security guard and responsible in general. It sounds like he had every intention of working hard for a living, raising his family and enjoying the benefits that a (formerly?) first world country has to offer.

Until somebody pushed him too far.

I'll put it this way, he's not the only person offended by the liberals culture war aggressions. But he was crazy enough to act on it where Christians have been too passive in letting it go too far. We could have saved all 51 of them if we had curtailed liberal culture wars a long time ago.

And now as the liberal is wont to do, they're blaming it on everybody else.

Now they want people on "terrorist watchlists" to lose their rights, but when Donald Trump says we need to be careful about letting Muslims into the country unrestrained through liberal open borders while we're currently at war with them, he's a racist.

Apparently the liberal bright idea is to continue letting anybody in and then keep a list after they're already loose on american soil.

And I'll tell you why, becasue the liberals WANT to endanger Americans.
And then use it as an excuse for RINO's to send us to war and take away Americans rights.

And you can bet that that liberal "watchlist" will be full of Christians, the NRA and anybody who disagrees with them.

a reply to: Willtell

Thank you. I agree with everything you said -- and said so well!

This looks like an FBI anti terror operation who the FBI was trying to lure into some act but somehow this went awry.

Usually the FBI stops the act and arrests the guy before he acts but something went terribly wrong here.

Yup. Maybe he went rogue or maybe his terrorist connections have figured out the MO of the feds and pushed the date up a bit. I don't know. But the feds had plenty of reason and opportunity to know this guy was trouble.

Another poster said that the state department had shut down the investigations. Someone had plans for this guy.

a reply to: robthom

You make a good point in that this guy was a powder keg ready to blow, and something set him off... but no one could or did make him do anything he wasn't so inclined and motivated to do already.

Another good point you make -- and others have made -- is that all the cries for "do something! do something!" is an invitation to further trample our rights... including and especially 2nd amendment rights.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Willtell

Thank you. I agree with everything you said -- and said so well!

This looks like an FBI anti terror operation who the FBI was trying to lure into some act but somehow this went awry.

Usually the FBI stops the act and arrests the guy before he acts but something went terribly wrong here.

Yup. Maybe he went rogue or maybe his terrorist connections have figured out the MO of the feds and pushed the date up a bit. I don't know. But the feds had plenty of reason and opportunity to know this guy was trouble.

Another poster said that the state department had shut down the investigations. Someone had plans for this guy.

Mateen, although born here was basically a Radical Muslim infiltrator, just like the other 10,000+ living here in the USA right now.

At some point in the recent past he decided to do some sort of horrendous act somehow someway and IMO he set himself up to be in the position to do so, IE security guard etc.

The scary part is the many other radical muslim infiltrators that are already here, and they are primed, no doubt. Matter of fact IMO the POTUS, unfortunately, is just another infiltrator and it has been said many times before.

This entire world wide muzzie infiltration scheme that is happening and especially in the EU has one purpose and it was planned.

Muslims want world wide Sharia law,

and TPTB want a world gone out of control so they can offer the only solution.

a reply to: fishy6

Right. But we have to hold the feds accountable as well! I agree with all you said -- about Mateen, about the infiltration, about sharia law, about the TPTB... And especially about Obama as the Pretender-in-Chief.

And that's why it's absolutely vital to be just as concerned with the questionable actions -- and inactions -- of our federal agents and agencies that he "executes."