Labour MP Jo Cox has died after being shot three times in the street near her office by an attacker

a reply to: CharlestonChew

Oh really?

Tell me, do you believe Rothbard to have been immune to the subconscious? Do you believe that the man was capable of creating an economic or political philosophy without allowing his hindbrain to do at least some of the filling in work?

It stands to reason that a man who erroneously believes the common man to be unwilling or incapable of interacting with the intellectual aspects of life, is fundamentally incapable himself of formulating any plan, scheme, or philosophy that will work out in the favour of such a person as he holds such low opinion of. He has fundamentally misunderstood the very people to whom his work applies most strongly.

Because he has misunderstood the common man, he has misunderstood the concept of the state, because a state is nothing more than a product of the lives and deaths of generations of common persons, growing up, living and dying in that place, all of whom have varying impacts on the history and evolution of that place and the laws and social mores which form therein. That is why there ARE significant differences between China's state, my United Kingdom, your United States, and so on and so forth. They are not all alike, they are more or less different, depending on the amount of shared history two states might have, and indeed the economic or resource pressures upon those locations at any given moment in history.

Observe please the fact that there are significant differences between each and every one of the United States of America. These differences are not merely born of differing manners of government, but differences in the hearts and minds of the residents, which flow through time and paper into differing policies on everything from litter collection to the legality of smoking pot. It could be argued that the Federal Goverment, which seeks to apply blanket laws to every state, despite those states having identities apart from one another, is the only power in the United States which seems resistant to absorbing the identity of its constituent parts, instead looking to compress and oppress them all equally.

If the common person is not involved in intellectual affairs, then how are the separate states of America so readily connected to those who live in them? I think it is safe to say, that shaping the spirit and identity of a place is hardly a matter for dullards, the witless, disinterested common man described by Rothbard. And yet the states which make up the USA have their own common heroes, men and women who helped shape the hearts of those states, generations of them. Common people, doing uncommon things, and capturing moments in time that live even now, in the collective identity shared by those who walk where they walked, who take advantage of the shade of the same trees they rested under.

Rothbard takes none of these things seriously, gives them not a moments thought, passes over them like a doctor seeking pulses, and finding only cadavers. His understanding of the very foundation of societies, is flawed, because his understanding of mankind is flawed, two dimensional, where three is the minimum requirement. Humanity is a complex system. Failing to understand the smallest granule of it, can lead to planning which does not hold up to testing, leave alone application.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Tell me, do you believe Rothbard to have been immune to the subconscious?

The subconscious doesn't exist.

Do you believe that the man was capable of creating an economic or political philosophy without allowing his hindbrain to do at least some of the filling in work?

Yes.

It stands to reason that a man who erroneously believes the common man to be unwilling or incapable of interacting with the intellectual aspects of life, is fundamentally incapable himself of formulating any plan, scheme, or philosophy that will work out in the favour of such a person as he holds such low opinion of. He has fundamentally misunderstood the very people to whom his work applies most strongly.

This is a complete non-sequitur. You're saying because Rothbard believed X, that humans don't have the right to freely associate, or that the non-aggression principle is invalid.

If his philosophy is invalid, then it's Ok for me to stab you and take your money just because I want it.

a reply to: CharlestonChew

More empty speculation.

This philosophy has failed the "Reality Test" and shows no sign of ever becoming workable in the real world.

The map is not the territory.

Your theories are as useful as the number of angels that can dance on a pin.

Unrealistic and doomed to failure....

a reply to: CharlestonChew

You are no anarchist. In fact every psychotic notion is exactly what keeps us from an anarchic society. Don't presume to speak for the rest of us.

originally posted by: CharlestonChew

The subconscious doesn't exist.

That’s like saying aliens don’t exist. It’s all a matter of interpretation anyway - I’d argue that the “subconscious” is like a sense which we are mostly unaware of whilst being in a conscious state.

Say for example I think to myself “Hello person over there”, and they instantly turn to smile at me very knowingly - what would that suggest about the “subconscious”? Riddle me that.

So sad.

Sounds like she was a very much beloved MP to her constituents and fellow associates.





This little tribute was made my Nathan Cullen, an MP here in Canada...

a reply to: IllegalName

That’s like saying aliens don’t exist.

No, it's like saying the subconscious doesn't exist.

It’s all a matter of interpretation anyway

No, it's a matter of a thing either exists or it doesn't.

I’d argue that the “subconscious” is like a sense which we are mostly unaware of whilst being in a conscious state.

I'd argue that's a hypothesis and not evidence of the existence of a thing.

Say for example I think to myself “Hello person over there”, and they instantly turn to smile at me very knowingly - what would that suggest about the “subconscious”? Riddle me that.

That would suggest you're conflating psychic phenomena with the subconscious and proffering hypotheticals as evidence.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: CharlestonChew

You are no anarchist. .

Yes I am.

In fact every psychotic notion is exactly what keeps us from an anarchic society.

What are you talking about??

It would appear a certain "anarchist" has never heard of the propaganda of the deed

Don't presume to speak for the rest of us

Us who? You only speak for yourself.

A Friendly warning coming from Brussels just before the Brexit vote! The EU has learned very well from italian Mafia how the deal is done! But will it have any effect on anything politically? Since we're talking about the EU ... probably not!

I don't often rant but i think i feel the need. Jo Cox MP has been murdered. Its being reported that this was done by someone apparently shouting “Britain First”. Someone who has clearly absorbed the bigoted, small minded and frankly xenophobic propaganda being peddled at the moment, and it has inflamed him to a point of frenzy.

This is what happens when people like Farage, Johnson and Trump peddle the populist politics of fear and spread the same vile message that groups like Britain First peddle. They manipulate and twist facts to prey on peoples fear and lack of understanding.

Its happened throughout history where dangerous people manipulate the vulnerable to their own ends by pointing the finger at others and telling people what they want to hear. I don’t want to be part of a nation that gives people like this the credibility to point fingers at other nations, nationalities or minorities.

We are not special, we are not better than everyone else, we are not some mighty empire any more. Our problems are not caused by other nations or people who work hard and try to better themselves. We shouldn’t be letting small minded bigots turn the country against itself for some fanciful dream of bygone days where we blame Johnny foreigner for all our woes. This is playing with, and now costing people their lives. This needs to stop now!

a reply to: blackrabbit1

Do us all a favour, eh? Write that down, stick it in an envelope and send it to David Cameron. Cheers!

originally posted by: CharlestonChew

No, it's a matter of a thing either exists or it doesn't.

I'd argue that's a hypothesis and not evidence of the existence of a thing.

Saying that the subconscious does not exist is hypothetical and is not evidence either.

This was my point about aliens; I’m sodded if I know if there are other sentient beings out there, but I don’t go about claiming either way that we are alone in the universe or otherwise.

That would suggest you're conflating psychic phenomena with the subconscious and proffering hypotheticals as evidence.

That depends on whether or not I’m presenting it as a hypothesis or actual experience, doesn’t it? Unless of course you’re saying that telepathy would not necessarily imply it is subconscious, which would be another concept altogether. I’m just saying that the existence of telepathy does, so far as I’m concerned, imply that there is a subconscious level of awareness which has been controlled and kept hidden from us since forever.

Not that this is relevant to the topic, unless of course there was indeed some weird subliminal crap going on with that guy. Wouldn’t surprise me, though.

a reply to: IllegalName

Saying that the subconscious does not exist is hypothetical and is not evidence either.

The claim that X does not exist is a negative claim.

It's impossible to provide evidence for the non-existence of a thing.

The burden of proof falls on the one making the positive claim (X exists).

a reply to: CharlestonChew

I hear your point there, that could well apply in a legal sense.

But... I’m basing my standpoint around personal experience.

Maybe get back on topic eh?.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: daskakik

There were 146 deaths by firearm but those stats include suicides.
When you only count the homicides by gun, the total number of deaths in 2011 in the entire UK was 50.
So the population of the UK in 2011 was 63 million and only 50 were killed as the result of a gun.

It kind of puts things in perspective when you break down the stats.

Congrats to the United Kingdom! One USA town called Chicago, had 470 killed, with a population of 2.7 million.

a reply to: blackrabbit1

With sentiments like that, we may as well never debate anything. Yep, close down all debate.

The issue here is that a person has murdered an MP. What his motivations were are currently unknown. The actually reported statement was "put Britain first", which has a completely differently interpretation to the quote "Britain First".

Both are different things.

"put Britain first" is what millions of people want and is a cornerstone of the "leave" side.
"Britain First" is a tiny niche group of ex-BNP supporters.

Sounds like a pretty horrendous ordeal Mrs Cox went through.
Two witnesses heard murder suspect of Jo Cox shout “Britain first!” – here’s what they said

Obvious conspiracy angle: the desperate anti-Brexit pro-EU people have sacrificed one of their own in a last ditch attempt to change the momentum of the vote...

I am inclined to agree, there is an angle. This has happened at a very convenient time, less than a week before the referendum.


It's a shock to hear about this. I am close to the area it happened in and the mood is incredibly sombre, around the country and the region. My wishes to her family at this tragic time.

a reply to: CharlestonChew

Rothbard was not the progenitor of the right to freedom of association, or the father of the concept of non-aggression. Those are not thoughts original to him in the least, but concepts which would have existed without his input.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: CharlestonChew

Dude you obviously have no idea what you are talking about so there is no point in continuing with this.

Bye

I'm curious, why do you keep responding to a troll? The more you feed them the more they will keep coming back.