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How Many Rights Are You Willing To Lose?

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posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 01:05 AM
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It's a pretty simple question. Since the Orlando shooting the calls for gun control have gone through the roof. Liberals in congress grandstanding about AR15s and terror watch lists. Even Trump getting in the mix talking about the terror watchlist and using it to deny gun sales to "potential terrorists".

Just today I saw a story that a little over 70 DHS employees are on the terror watch list. When this list was first introduced we found thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens on the list. Including several cases of children as young as 7 included. This list turned due process on its head affecting thousands.

Now we are talking about using that list to ban people from owning guns. What these people don't get, or simply don't care about, is that in order to remove a right from a US Citizen there must be due process involved. This whole concept DESTROYS innocent until proven guilty by placing the burden of proof on the individual instead of the government when it once belonged. This whole concept violates, on it's face, the 4th and 5th amendments.

Gun owners already have no 4th and 5th amendment rights. We are REQUIRED to prove our innocence to the state before we can exercise a constitutionally protected right. But that's not good enough for you, Mr. and Mrs. anti gun. You don't care, apparently, what rights you drag along the cutting room floor in order for you to achieve a false sense of security. You want to feel like you've done something...

You will do something. You think this is just about guns and just about gun owners. But it isn't. You do not understand just how intertwined and overlapping the Bill of Rights is. When you tamper with one you destroy the rest. How many people got put on the watch list during the Bush admin for going to a protest? Why wasn't that ok then, but it is now ok to do it to gun owners?

I don't want to hear liberal, anti-gun America EVER complain about the NSA, privacy rights, or any other totalitarian act of government until they can cogently explain to me why I must have MY 4th and 5th Amendment rights stripped from me in order to exercise the 2nd Amendment.

I'm willing to bet you can't. There is no justification for destroying liberty in the aftermath of terrorism. When Bush was in office ALL of these arguments are the same ones you made when it came to his administrations abuses of power. Now it's suddenly ok? You're a bunch of hypocrites. You argue from positions of ignorance and emotionalism with zero regard for the consequences of your capricious demands on the rest of us via the FORCE of government.

You are aiding the creation of an extremely dangerous totalitarian state. You're too caught up in the moment to look ahead any further than your own feelings. Even when facts are presented to you the reaction is always to lash out emotionally and to appeal to the illogical. When was the last time you stopped and really thought about the consequences of your actions?

You really think this is just about guns? You're about to be in for a rude and potentially violent awakening as you aid a corrupt government in stealing away rights based on nothing more than false information and emotional knee-jerk reactions.
edit on 16 6 16 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 01:27 AM
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There aren't any 'reasonable' laws that would have prevented Orlando.

The Gun Grabbers don't care as long as it isn't a right they don't care about they are willing to sacrifice it for their agenda. The sad thing is I protect all kinds of rights I don't support or agree with and I do that a) because it is right and b) because I expect when the Government comes for rights I do exercise and care about we can expect help from our other liberal friends.

Sadly, I don't see them helping in fact they are ramping up the calls for loss of rights for us 'right wing nut jobs' that are trying to hang on to our rights. I already wrote my Senators and Congressman about how I feel. They are probably sick of hearing from me, but that is the only recourse we have to defend our rights.

It is a sad America we live in today.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Each person will have to make their decision on that.

The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way people will not see these rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed. – Adolf Hitler



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

NONE.............What happens when you keep poking a sleeping bear?






posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 06:08 AM
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The price of living in a free society is that we have to live with the possibility of attacks.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 06:55 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

The terror watch list should be burned and it's too damned easy to buy a gun illegally for any gun control to be effective.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:07 AM
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Banning guns will have the same effect as banning drugs. We all seen how that turned out.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:10 AM
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Correct: You bleed to death from a thousand pin pricks as well as a jugular cut. Zero should be given up.a reply to: Azureblue



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: projectvxn

The terror watch list should be burned and it's too damned easy to buy a gun illegally for any gun control to be effective.


I'll be honest I wasn't expecting that from you.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Why? We agree on a whole lot of stuff. I guess you've forgotten.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: projectvxn

The terror watch list should be burned and it's too damned easy to buy a gun illegally for any gun control to be effective.


Thats the difference between gun control in the USA compared to the UK.

It works in the UK cause there were never that many guns to begin with.

It cant work in the USA because there is what 200 million guns?
Makeing them illegal wont make them vanish overnight. The gini is out of the bottle is the USA.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:15 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

Maybe.

Or maybe I've been caught up in this ridiculous debate too long to take too much notice.

I'll be better about it in the future.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

200 million guns is actually the low end.

In legal private hands there are roughly 300-400 million or so guns spread between 100 to 130 million people.

There are about an additional 100 million in the hands of criminals and have been there a long time. To include automatic weapons and military grade explosive devices and compounds.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

The reason that England doesn't have a large black market for guns is because of the IRA. No way in hell would they let you guys have em lol.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 07:23 AM
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People need to understand that RIGHTS aren't negotiable. They're not something that the government can rescind via legislation.

According to the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

The government can't arbitrarily rescind constitutionally guaranteed rights, because we were granted those rights by our "god" and not by the government.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
The price of living in a free society is that we have to live with the possibility of attacks.




^^^^^^

This.

We either can live in a free society or not.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn


I don't want to hear liberal, anti-gun America EVER complain about the NSA, privacy rights, or any other totalitarian act of government until they can cogently explain to me why I must have MY 4th and 5th Amendment rights stripped from me in order to exercise the 2nd Amendment.


How about my right to not be shot in what should be a safe public place by somebody with a gun that nobody actually needs?

It's a complicated subject

Terrorists and mentally unbalanced people - whatever are we going to do?

Being fully and constitutionally armed is not really the issue

Can you show me one real world example of how your rights are being taken away by banning a type of weapon that's obviously done real harm, but not once yet been used to protect people in a public place - or from their over reaching government?

Your whole argument is built on a what if

Should we be allowed rocket launchers too?

Let's escalate this bar fight. Liberals are not the problem - you enjoy your guns and you don't want them taken away. 50 people dead - more and more every year - and no compromise

The NRA owns this country - and they own you

Unfortunately - I have no say in any of it



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

When we lose sight of the basic individual liberties that everyone has, when we start justifying the losses of freedoms for fleeting security, when we punish or silence those with different views be it religious or political. . . .

Then we've lost.



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy




...when we start justifying the losses of freedoms for fleeting security...


Seriously? The fantasy and illusion of security - from our government - is being used against all citizens now. It's happening - now

How nuanced a discussion do you want to have?

Nobody is talking about banning all guns - but, OK - no compromise

We lose actual freedom and sacrifice actual safety - now. Because: no compromise

This country is armed to the teeth. If our government actually does turn on us? How does that play out exactly?

No, seriously. You guys keep putting it out there - I want an explanation

How will this go down if you have every gun you ever wanted? How will it play out if you still have your guns - just not all guns? What's the difference?

The government has: tanks, rockets/bombs, jets. Chemical weapons? Yeah - I know the liberals got rid of those - meanies. But, who knows what's hidden here and there - right? I mean - after all - it's the government

Drones...

If America goes to war with itself? We are f***ed no matter how you look at it

But here and now? Yes - thank you all so much for the here and now. I definitely feel freer and safer


edit on 6/16/2016 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I'm always going to err on the side of more freedoms and liberties not less.

If you don't like it? Don't really care. You have that freedom to disagree.



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