Two Year Old Dragged Into Lagoon By Alligator At Disney Resort

originally posted by: veracity
What do they say about this?

I would ask them, as I have no idea.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
I figured something like that. Why have 'no swimming' then post a lifeguard?

The lifeguard was not posted at the lagoon, they were at a nearby pool.

I got it the first time. Not furthering the conversation....just don't want you to think I'm that dense.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Rainforest Café has 2 marine biologist (this is much more than just a lifeguard) on their payroll per restaurant, for those of you who don't know what rainforest café is, its a mall restaurant (there is also one in Disney) surely Disney Resorts has these Marine Biologists as well.

What do they say about this?

Or...

Disney decided not to hire extra help for the safety of the guests or the safety of the animals?

It's not really been an issue up until now. You can bet there will be all kinds of reactionary response to this incident.

Only 23 people have been killed by alligators in Florida since 1948:
Stats

I believe this is the first incident of its kind on actual Disney property:
Wiki Alligator Fatalities

Oh, boy... Just saw on CNN that another man came forward with a similar experience last year at a Disney hotel a few miles away. There were 2 alligators making a beeline for his kid but they got out of the way. When he reported this (and showed pics, video) to the hotel manager he said she was annoyed and told them they were harmless, as they were resident pets!

What the heck?!!! He warned her that something will happen in the future if they didn't take care of the problem. Turns out he was horribly right.

While this is a tragedy and I cannot comprehend what the family is dealing with, this is Florida and pretty much all freahwater lakes are at risk for alligator attacks.
Something like this happens every couple of years here, this story is making headlines mostly because it happened at Disney world. This was not the first time something tragic happened there, however with the information/smart phone age, Disney cannot sweep the tragedy under the rug as they have many times in the past.

Disney would definitely be liable in court.

Having been told by employees customers are feeding large alligators Disney should have addresses the issue with a minimum of signs of potential animal danger not a no swimming sign. Not to mention having movie night on the beach. Even Nepalitano is saying they have a serious legal issue. The design of the location is just rediculous and lazy. Once the lake was no longer used for swimming the landscape could have easily been changed to make a fence and bank at the waters edge. Even a low decorative iron fence would stop a bursting alligator and let people know don't go over there.

A beach is imprinted in a person's mind as a place you go swimming. Some extra due dillagence is common sense.

a reply to: luthier

While there is no doubt disney will pay the family for this tragedy, there is also no chance of this ever making it to court.

I am a Florida native, it is implied that lakes are home to gators....common sense 101.

a reply to: jrod
I agree.

And I live in SC not exactly Florida but plenty of gators.

However the same goes for Disney right. They should not have designed a beach that leads gators up to the party area. Or people to the feeding tank.

a reply to: luthier

Well hindsight is 20/20. It is tough to keep gators out of most places with a fresh body of water, even fenced in retention ponds.

Back in the early 1990's, Disney opened a,resort in Wabasso, Fl. A young kid, 8 years old was killed by a shark off that beach in that time frame, however the media did not sensationalize it...Disney and the municipalities of Florida are notorious for censoring stories that might hurt the tourism dollar.

a reply to: jrod

A shark is a different situation.
If Disney had a little bay where customers through food in the water and sharks came up and ate the food and they had movie night on the shore of a fake beach and some kid was nabbed then yeah they are liable.

I completely disagree. It would not be hard at all to change the landscaping so the alligator would not be able to hide very easily. For instance not being able to touch the water at all.

I thought it was just an unfortunate accident until I saw the layout. Not the smartest layout for a lake people are known to feed alligators at that location Especially without alligator warning signs. If I had that lake in my backyard I would have a fence. It may not keep them out all the time but with Disney's full time staff, knowledge of how they hunt and behave, and access to landscaping resources this wouldn't have happened. I think they have some responsibility for being a bit lazy.

a reply to: luthier
It looks like Disney was involved in the mitigation process. As a wilderness preserve, they can't restrict animals from a natural habitat. It completely defeats the purpose.

If they were allowing people access to the preserve, there should have been proper notification and education of the dangers to both the animals, and to the humans.

People that live outside of rural, or natural areas, are clueless as to the wonders and dangers of nature.

cooperativeconservation.org...

www.orlandosentinel.com...

a reply to: theantediluvianif this is a man made lagon at a resort with life guards why are there any aligators alowed in there? don't disney parks have grounds kepers and pest control?

Disney is now putting up alligator warning signs.

a reply to: proteus33

It's a 200 acre man-made lake, you aren't gong to be able to easily keep gators out of something like that. Especially considering it is connected to natural waterways.



Situated within a larger area of such bodies of water:



As far as the lifeguard. He wasn't watching the lagoon, there are a couple of swimming areas near the beach where the attack took place and the lifeguard ran over from there. Here is the area in which the attack took place:



Note the recreational areas set back from the beach. This is where the lifeguard was stationed.

This was a terrible accident and, unfortunately, those occur regardless of how many safeguards we put in place because, snip happens.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I disagree.

You have employees saying people are feeding alligators right there.

The rec area is not far from the beach.

There us absolutley no need to have the beach spill unto the water. If this were my back yard in Florida I would never do such a thing.

I wouldn't make a beach lead up to my house, pool, or bar when I know there are alligators in the water and my guests are feeding them.

They had no beware of alligator signs

It would be vary easy to landscape the area to expose alligators by making the only interaction possible on land.

Just a fence that keeps guests away from the water. Sure the gators will slip by occasionally but you will see them in the white sand.

You can have a sectioned off cove with a fish finder or ultrasound the alerts security.

Plenty of things they should have done. Most legal experts are saying the exact same thing.

Again would you have this backyard layout if you knew your guests were feeding alligators right there at the edge where the lake touched the shore? You wouldn't put up a fence or landscape to make it harder for a alligator to hide where he can eat your guests, pets, or kids?

Even if this were a nature trail on the property I may tend to agree. But this isn't a wildlife preserve. This is Disney with all its resources and innovation being lazy with a guest area that is a wildlife area not a party beach. The mindset for the two types of behaviour is totally different.

2 alligator attacks in 44 years... 1 fatal... its not an common problem...I am usually more than ready to blame a big company but in this case no, Disney will pay out money to make it go away.

But there is little to no chance you can make the place gator proof, people have gators pulled from their pools, lakes, ponds, drainage ditches every single day of the year in Florida.

there are two reasons a gator attacks people that I am aware of, its mating season and you walked to close to the nest...

Or the general stupidity of people, examples; It hissed in warning and you ignored it... you fed it... once its fed it will always associate people with food, you tried to "play" with it... as I said general stupidity of people.

a reply to: luthier

Again, just because we build in an area in which these animals have existed for a lot longer than we've been writing about them, does not mean that the animals are going to take note of our 'rules.' And no amount of signage or fencing will change the fact that some people are just not that aware of their surroundings.

Between 1948 and 1995, 218 people were attacked by alligators in Florida. Seven of these attacks ended in human fatality. One hundred and ten of these attacks occurred between 1990 and 1995; from 1940 to 1959, only one alligator attack was recorded (Conover and Dubow 1997). The recorded attacks occurred while the victims were swimming, snorkeling, wading, or walking near a body of water.

As urbanization and nuisance alligator complaints continue to increase, it becomes obvious that every complaint cannot be addressed. It is not possible or desirable to remove the alligator from the territory which it held before the urban encroachment.

A review of nuisance alligator management in the southeastern United States

If you think it is a simple matter to control these creatures I suggest you start a business and make all haste down there because apparently all of the specialists that have ever looked at the issue don't seem to have been able to find a way to keep this from happening short of exterminating the alligators entirely.

What's needed is a common sense approach to recreation in areas in which these animals are known to exist:

Living With Alligators — Do’s and Dont’s

* Never feed alligators. It’s both dangerous and illegal. When fed, alligators can overcome their natural wariness and learn to associate people with food.

* Dispose of fish scraps in garbage cans at boat ramps and fish camps. Do not throw them in the water.

* Be aware of the possibility of alligators when you are near fresh or brackish water. Be aware of your surroundings.

* Do not swim outside of posted swimming areas or in waters that might be populated by large alligators.

* Alligators are most active between dusk and dawn. Avoid night swimming.

* Don’t swim with your dog. Dogs often attract an alligator’s interest. Dogs and cats are similar in size to an alligator’s natural prey. Don’t allow pets to swim, exercise or drink in or near waters that might contain alligators.

* Leave alligators alone. State law prohibits killing, harassing or possessing alligators. Observe and photograph alligators from a distance. Do not get close.

Living Among Alligators, Safety Tips, Facts To Keep in Mind

The Disney resort rules already prohibit guests from feeding the alligators. Making it even more of a violation won't stop stupid from being stupid.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Nobody is even remotely saying you can make it gator proof.

You can obviously see a gator in your clean pool water right?

Answer this seriously.

If this was your back yard, you had kids and pets, would you lead a beach into a place people feed alligators without a steep embankment and even a four foot iron fence on a little brick ledge?

Come on. Thats silly. First off you put up beware of alligator signs if you know people are feeding them even after you told them at the desk.

You take precautions even when the risk is small.

Honestly I can't believe some drunk person hasn't wandered over from the bar by now at the wrong time.


You guys are making this sound like some eco tourism getaway. It's not. It's Disney a massive company with any resources available. They had enough to create the entire canal and lake system.

Of coarse they can't keep gators out.

They can make it much harder for them to hide in the water where any biologist knows is a number one possibility for an attack.

Let that sink in. Since you know these gators so well Disney has ignored the basic hunting and nesting aspect of this animal and creates an area where the two can interact.

If it is a wildlife feature then it should be extra obvious with signs and boundaries where the animals could be (obviously were if dumb people were feeding them)

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Irishhaf

Nobody is even remotely saying you can make it gator proof.

You can obviously see a gator in your clean pool water right?

Answer this seriously.

If this was your back yard, you had kids and pets, would you lead a beach into a place people feed alligators without a steep embankment and even a four foot iron fence on a little brick ledge?

Come on. Thats silly. First off you put up beware of alligator signs if you know people are feeding them even after you told them at the desk.

You take precautions even when the risk is small.

Honestly I can't believe some drunk person hasn't wandered over from the bar by now at the wrong time.


You guys are making this sound like some eco tourism getaway. It's not. It's Disney a massive company with any resources available. They had enough to create the entire canal and lake system.

Of coarse they can't keep gators out.

They can make it much harder for them to hide in the water where any biologist knows is a number one possibility for an attack.

Let that sink in. Since you know these gators so well Disney has ignored the basic hunting and nesting aspect of this animal and creates an area where the two can interact.

If it is a wildlife feature then it should be extra obvious with signs and boundaries where the animals could be (obviously were if dumb people were feeding them)

You can forget the fence idea they climb over 6ft fences all the time. They show up in drive ways, golf course, patios, at front doors, in fenced in back yards and no amount of fences stop them. It is just the way things are here. Disney removes gators on occasion when they can find them and put up a sign saying no swimming. Would the parents have kept the kid out of the water if the no swimming sign also said gators? Maybe but, you can go to any bog park here see tourist right down on the waters edge and in the water with gators all around them with kids giving them food and taking pictures like they think these are tame gators because they are in a state park.

This was a freak occurrence. Never happened before and that resort, plus the Polynesian which also has a beach on the water have been their for decades. Just a case of bad luck.

a reply to: MrSpad

So your telling me an alligator is going to burst over a fence from his nest or hunting area to get somebody? Thats highly unlikely.


Once the gator is on land his surprise hunting grounds are astronomically lowered. Especially with grounds crews sweeping before customers start getting up.

I have seen gators on the golf courses here. Much less intimidating on land than hiding in the water. You walk the other way they scurry awkwardly. However every water hole has many warnings not to get your ball. Thats in a place kids are not just resting on the beach.

I don't think your argument is about the fact you can control the humans from being in high percentage strike zones.