What Should Have Been Done to Prevent this Mass Shooting?

There is a lot of yelling going on right now about what should be done to prevent tragedies like the recent one in Orlando, but I've been looking at the facts that have been coming to light about this case and I can't figure out what more could have been done to prevent this that wouldn't have led to American rights being stripped away. Let's go over some of these details below to see what I'm getting at.

First he's American, so he isn't an immigrant or refugee from a war torn country in the Middle East. Also that same source goes on to say that he had been under investigation from the FBI due to remarks he said at his work that sounded terrorist sympathetic. Furthermore, he made the terrorist watch list from 2013 - 2014 where the FBI grilled him relentlessly but could find nothing on him.

Second he purchased his guns legally and had a valid security and firearms license. So this means that we had no reasons to confiscate his guns or deny his gun purchases.

Third, he only recently pledged his allegiance to ISIS. So it's not like he is part of some larger cell of covert terrorists infiltrating this country to destroy it from within. Naturally, ISIS will take credit for any of this nonsense, but there is no evidence to suggest that he was part of any larger plan. In fact, the FBI has confirmed that he was radicalized on the internet.

Oh and for an interesting twist, I just discovered that Omar Mateen had used a gay dating app and regularly attended Pulse (the bar the shooting occured in). Now that may have much to do with him planning this out and casing the joint since the witnesses describe him as usually sitting by himself or getting loud, drunk, and belligerent. Though the latter doesn't make a lot of sense for someone casing a joint for an attack. So there's a possibility that this dude was also secretly gay.

ETA: I forgot about this piece of evidence when I was writing the thread, but an off duty police officer who was working security returned fire against Omar. So don't think this place was devoid of guns when the shooting went down.

So anyways knowing these things (and I'm sure more info will come to light later), how could we, the US government, and namely Obama have done things differently here to prevent this tragedy? Trump has been calling for Obama's resignation over not calling this "Islamic Terrorism" as well as indirectly holding him accountable for being "weak against terrorism". Well, where is the weakness? All the answers I've thought of would either restrict American rights based on hearsay or would be just as ineffective as what we tried to do already.

Unfortunately, nothing could have been done. Unless someone in his inner circle knew he was premeditating this mass murder and didn't say anything (possible), prevention was pretty much impossible.

homeland security dropped the ball. this guy was investigated twice for terror connections....they should have been watching him

a reply to: CaDreamer

But when nothing arises from watching someone intently for a year, how long do you keep watching that person before you determine that he is clean? Clearly this guy wasn't, but are you seriously suggesting that without using hindsight right now that it would have been a good idea to extend investigations against him when they weren't baring any fruit of terrorist activities?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ban gun free zones, seriously. That would be a start. And encourage EVERYONE to get armed and get training. Many if not ALL of these multiple victim mass shootings occur in victim disarmament zones.

In whats becoming the norm with regards to these events, this one is also full of really strange and questionable circumstances.

There are reports that the shooter himself was a regular at the club, that his father is politically connected, maybe even a CIA asset.

Apparently the FBI knew of this guy but did nothing. Was this due to a "stand down" order from higher up? Or a LIHOP ("Let It Happen On Purpose") situation?

Because their track record when it comes to "domestic terrorism" isnt the best:

Proof the FBI coerces unstable "subjects" into committing acts of terrorism.

Allegedly there was an initial shootout as he was going into the club but then three hours went by before police did anything???

Again, who made a decision to allow this rampage to continue for 3 hours uninterrupted?

There is no possible way to make or form a game plan nor policy when there are so many bizarre circumstances and questions which will most likely never get answered.


a reply to: Bennyzilla

I disagree about having your rights taken away because you were placed on a secretive government watch list with no way to prove your innocence.

We should not be allowing government watch lists regardless. If someone is up to something, they should be arrested and charged.

But I wasnt aware that the FBI made a statement, can you post a link to the article?

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Wow you said what should have been done about the shooting. That my cyber friend is a huge question.

Did you mean what could have been done about the shooting?

originally posted by: Atsbhct
Unfortunately, nothing could have been done. Unless someone in his inner circle knew he was premeditating this mass murder and didn't say anything (possible), prevention was pretty much impossible.

This is what I'm trying to get at with this thread here. We did everything that we legally could to stop this guy, but he still managed to go ahead with his plan. Blaming the government for failing to stop this is silly. We need to realize that not all tragedies are preventable with the current American values we hold.

Not sure there's a whole lot we can do to prevent evil or mental illness like this from manifesting anytime, anywhere. Sure, it's easy to go off half-cocked without real analysis, truth, priority, or cooperation and spout things that will get you clicks or votes or whatever. But as to the actual implementation? Well this kind of thing happening just may be one of the costs of freedom in this stalemate we call today's world.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ban gun free zones, seriously.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention an off duty police officer who was working security returned fire. I'll have to edit my op, but in any case you aren't seriously suggesting that drunk people in a dimly lit building being armed is a good idea are you?

Ummmmmmmm......

More people having the ability to exercise their second amendment rights without having to jump through hoops before they do something that is supposedly wrong to have to jump through hoops to exercise them?.

Maybe everyone should wear body armor when they go outside the house?.

Or....

Maybe we should all walk out the door into the world and realize that this type of crap isn't going on everywhere, and the world is being made to look less safe to sell you stuff to make yourself feel more safe.

Stuff like this has been going on since the beginning of time.

Don't wanna actually, actively try to fix it though because you might end up being vilified for trying to fix something like George Zimmerman was.

where his parents vetted before being allowed in? if they were extremest, they shouldn't have been allowed in to America. i know it somehow racist to say, we should know about the people who are entering America.

I think if you've been on a terrorist watch list then you probably shouldn't be able to purchase a gun ever.

I also don't know why the FBI would come out and say "Oh yeah we definitely screwed up our investigation of this guy, our bad" so who knows what they really found when watching him for that year. Makes more sense that they would cover their own asses and say they did everything by the books.

I think the weakness comes from a general refusal to acknowledge real problems within the government and instead make the focus something that they can use to drive an agenda.

I don't think Obama needs to step down over this though, that would be asinine.

There are several things that could have been done to prevent this all of which is the failing of the government and society.

The first thing that could have been done was to show tolerance, to him and his family. The media and politicians have been demonizing the Islamic community since 9/11. And while they may not have received the brunt of such, it would be present on their minds. Trumps ill words in his presidential run, further made things worse, often now people who are Muslim are under the fear of their neighbors or communities, and are further being isolated from society to the point where the message of the extremists are starting to win. They have seen news reports of those Muslims attacked, people making false claims and it terrifies them to where they are starting to shy away. And his parents should have been told about the culture and ultimately that they should be more and more tolerant of others.

Another part of this blame should lie on the lawmakers and the religious leaders themselves. The messages of fear and hate, where they try to scare their followers with tales of the big bad LGBT person. Have you listened to the rhetoric and hate that is out there towards the LGBT community the lies about the dangers that they are suppose to pose. For people that is very religious, it can be a choice that is far more damming than many think. Intolerance and hate prevails.

And then there is the lawmakers themselves. The man was under investigation several times, at one time suspected of helping a terrorist group or 2. That alone should have been the red flag that stuck out and ultimately maybe delayed or prevented him from getting any sort of fire arms. But no, some lawmakers decided that would not be enough to stop a person from owning and having a fire arm. Consider this, you can be on a terror watch list, you can be banned from flying around the country or getting on a plane, but you can still legally own and purchase a fire arm.

What went wrong, I would say those would be a good indication of such.

originally posted by: thinline
where his parents vetted before being allowed in? if they were extremest, they shouldn't have been allowed in to America. i know it somehow racist to say, we should know about the people who are entering America.

His parents moved here in the 1970's from Afghanistan when we were supporting the Afghans against the USSR. Why would we have vetted them when they arrived here?

originally posted by: Bennyzilla

I don't think Obama needs to step down over this though, that would be asinine.

I agree. He has many other failures that are easily attributed to him. This was unavoidable. Much like Paris Attacks. Funny though, I don't remember all the gun banning talk when that happened.

originally posted by: Bennyzilla
I think if you've been on a terrorist watch list then you probably shouldn't be able to purchase a gun ever.

Justice Dept. Finds Flaws in F.B.I. Terror List
7 Ways That You (Yes, You) Could End Up On A Terrorist Watch List
She got on the no-fly list because the FBI checked the wrong box

Are you sure that's a good idea?

I also don't know why the FBI would come out and say "Oh yeah we definitely screwed up our investigation of this guy, our bad" so who knows what they really found when watching him for that year. Makes more sense that they would cover their own asses and say they did everything by the books.

Well that is circumstantial at best and needs evidence backing it to be a valid response.

I think the weakness comes from a general refusal to acknowledge real problems within the government and instead make the focus something that they can use to drive an agenda.

I don't think Obama needs to step down over this though, that would be asinine.

I'll agree with this.

originally posted by: thinline
where his parents vetted before being allowed in? if they were extremest, they shouldn't have been allowed in to America. i know it somehow racist to say, we should know about the people who are entering America.

Wasn't that over 30 years ago? The rules to cross borders weren't as strict before 9/11...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

There are clubs with metal detectors at their entrances. Casinos have them out of public site.

Internal security 'may' have prevented this particular event.

a reply to: nwtrucker

So you are blaming the Pulse for failing to stop this shooter because they didn't install a metal detector at their front doors? Or are you suggesting that the government mandate that all bars and nightclubs have metal detectors installed at their front doors?

Internal security 'may' have prevented this particular event.

I've already pointed out that internal security WAS helping out. An off-duty police officer working as a bouncer returned fire.

a reply to: nwtrucker

And yet there's people calling for the rights to carry guns in bars/nightclubs.....that'll make metal detectors useless.....