Need Help With This Orlando Footage. What Is Going On Here? LEOs and Shots Fired.

I can assure you that being 3 feet off target isn't a IN the heat of the moment miss. a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Cinder Block then 4" metal stud wall with 5/8 drywall....typical construction for most parts of the country.

I have seen what are supposed to be official reports that the SWAT team knocked down a DOOR to access the inside of the club. Approximately 30 hostages got out through the doorway. The bad guy appeared in the doorway and was shooting at the cops. That is when they engaged him and he was killed.

The back wall openings and bulletholes don't fit with that story.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

and i can assure you you are wrong.

the most famous cop ambush ever, notice the bullet holes from front to rear at a stationary targets that were not shooting back.


then if you go and find videos of the 1987 shot out in LA you know the one where the guys were all Kevlar up, or the Boston bombing shoot out, where people had rounds coming in their homes.

or any of the countless videos that show cops in a shootout. plenty of off target shots three feet or more.

it's plain to see you don't know anything about what your speaking of.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
it's plain to see you don't know anything about what your speaking of.

Kind of a recurring theme on ATS...

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I have yet to watch the videos but this timeline came from a Dailymail article.

Does it help to clarify anything or just make things more confusing?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

The thing about guns, is that they are essentially a force projector. Their invention allowed a person to kill a man at a distance, without involving the killer in physical exertion of any significant sort. Unlike the crossbow or bow before hand, which both require strength to operate, a pistol or rifle can be shot by practically any idiot, without that idiot having to train physically, and condition their body in order to operate the weapon at all.

That is not to say that use of pistols and rifles is not a skill that one can hone to outstanding degree, because obviously they are skills that can be focused and improved over time, but firing a pistol does not require one to have fantastically powerful arms, as did javelins, bows, and to a lesser extent, crossbows.

The distance killing ability that is handed to anyone who happens to pick up a firearm, means it does not matter a damn whether the shooter was within, or without the nightclub. Both the shooter and the police officers responding to the incident, could have exchanged shots through the windows and doors of the club without too much difficulty, precisely because they were all armed with ranged weaponry.


Disclaimer: I hate that this incident occurred, and I hate why it occurred, and I absolutely loathe the fact that we have not moved on further as a global society by now.

I personally believe, that you have to be just a little bit of a whimp to take a life with a gun unless you happen to carry one as part of your job. If you think that killing a person is the only way to satisfy your addled mind, then at least have the decency to draw steel and do it like a man, rather than from tens of feet away like a damned coward.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I wonder if that huge barrage from the police could be partly responsible for the many deaths? Sounds like they all just emptied everything they had at the building.


iTruthSeeker

a reply to: TrueBrit

I personally believe, that you have to be just a little bit of a whimp to take a life with a gun unless you happen to carry one as part of your job.

Not sure where the logic is there.
If you come home and three gang bangers are raping your wife and daughter....
You have to be a 'little bit of a whimp' to shoot them with a gun?
Unless you are a cop? Then you are a real man? Or what???

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
How many people do you think were injured by the swat team? I mean they did crash an armored vehicle into the building to gain entry, I would imagine they had also injured people in the process. They will never release their bullet count or a battle damage assessment either.

Police spokesperson said he could not rule out some people were injured by police fire.

By the looks of that downspout, the wall was breached with explosives. Funny the flash bang is mentioned countless times but the ever more powerful breaching charge never is.

a reply to: butcherguy

I m talking about murder. Not any legitimate use of force.


Murder is always pathetic, but it is particularly spineless when committed from a distance.

a reply to: CraftBuilder

looking for videos now, i saw in a press conference on CNN, Fox ABC, CBS, Rick Scott, Head of FDLE, and Orlando police chief gave where the chief told where they planted the charges, that they did not blow the wall in, then they used their response truck to push the rest of the way in.

From the sound of it there were bullets flying everywhere and there were an awful lot of people shooting.

I winced when I was listening to this because I haven't heard anything like that since I was in combat many years ago.

I am pretty sure a lot of people were hit by "friendly fire" from the sound of that.

a reply to: CraftBuilder

haven't found the videos yet have found this so far.

Law enforcement officials decided to mount an assault on the club, but an explosive placed on the wall did not penetrate completely, so officers used an armored vehicle to punch a hole about two feet off the ground, allowing hostages to flee, the chief said. Mr. Mateen also came through the breach in the wall, Chief Mina said, and was killed in a shootout with the police.
Orlando Gunman Was ‘Cool and Calm’ After Massacre, Police Say

another report,

First, they used an explosive and an armored vehicle to break through a wall on the other side of a bathroom where police believed about 15 people were holed up, Mina said. Adjacent to that bathroom, Mateen was holding the smaller group of hostages. The breach left a hole about 2 or 3 feet wide. The SWAT team followed. It was about 4:15 a.m., according two senior law enforcement officials familiar with the case.
Diary of a Massacre: How the Orlando Nightclub Shooting Unfolded

so it would seem that the explosive and an armored vehicle were mentioned by more than one source.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
From the sound of it there were bullets flying everywhere and there were an awful lot of people shooting.

I winced when I was listening to this because I haven't heard anything like that since I was in combat many years ago.

I am pretty sure a lot of people were hit by "friendly fire" from the sound of that.

Yea there had to be some friendly fire. The speed of those shots sounded more like one of those giant rolls of firecrackers going off. Only thing I can think of is they thought he was the only one left in there maybe, so gave it their all.


iTruthSeeker

a reply to: gladtobehere

WTF man it took SWAT 3 HOURS!? I figured the whole thing was over in about 45 minutes tops. He had way more time in there than I thought.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain
How many people do you think were injured by the swat team? I mean they did crash an armored vehicle into the building to gain entry, I would imagine they had also injured people in the process. They will never release their bullet count or a battle damage assessment either.

Police spokesperson said he could not rule out some people were injured by police fire.

And a surgeon reported multiple calibers being taken out of single individuals.

So....I dunno.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
From the sound of it there were bullets flying everywhere and there were an awful lot of people shooting.

I winced when I was listening to this because I haven't heard anything like that since I was in combat many years ago.

I am pretty sure a lot of people were hit by "friendly fire" from the sound of that.

Exactly. Half of why I posted the video. I rarely have seven that many rounds being fired. Was like "holy hell that's a lot flying around"

Difference from back then to this present shat in Orlando is...fully automatic compared to semi-automatic. Gunman in Orlando as well as the LEO's that responded used semi-automatic weapons. One round for one pull of the trigger. From my experience with my AR-15...to miss 3 feet wide is to be a piss poor shot. Do you know why the .223 round is so popular? Velocity and very little re-coil. Means you stay on target way better than say a .762 round. I can draw smiley faces with mine at about 75 yards....getting old used to be 100.a reply to: hounddoghowlie