Orlando shooting survivor says he held door shut, trapping victims inside.

i call bull on this story ,was it a bulletproof door? i doubt it was a bulletproof door ,funny the media are supressing the storys about the multiple shooters
but run with this guy .

also this thread is higher up the ratings and has far less information than another thread.
why is that?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Anathros

I survived a kidnapping, rape, and attempted hanging, when I was 15, by thinking rationally when I was certain I was about to be murdered -- and I was only a kid then. I felt like my brain was extra sharp that night. I kept envisioning my parents seeing my naked dead body hanging from a tree, my bra stuffed into my mouth.

So, I'll judge him and I don't care who judges me.

I saw the layout of the club. Exiting the patio was not a difficult feat. There was absolutely no good reason for him to hold the door closed. So, I don't know if I believe him. And if what he is saying is true, I have a very, very poor opinion of him.

I only have my own perspective to go on though, and I don't feel particularly sympathetic in this case. He was safe, at the point he held the door closed.

I'm sorry for what you went through. I truly am. That said, I find it sad to see this kind of vitriol thrown in the direction of a victim regardless of his actions in the heat of the moment. I believe the sick ass Islamic terrorist is to blame but if there's enough Hate to go around, I'm sure the bouncers didn't do their jobs either.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I am very glad you were able to keep your wits about you and survive. It is an admirable thing. Not all are capable of it, especially when surrounded by hundreds of other people screaming in panic. In your horrible situation you only had one life to save - your own. This guy made a really hard choice in a very difficult situation that involved countless other lives besides his own. It didn't help that perhaps he didn't have your courage or strength of mind to guide him. I still won't judge him, I have a feeling he may be his own worst judge in time.

I have a better idea. If we want to be judgemental, let's judge the creep who pulled the trigger, OK?

a reply to: Anathros

Great. You judge the bouncers, I judge this guy.

And, hey, I think you probably have a great point about the bouncers, BTW.

Also...vitriol? Oh geez...was it the "I have a very, very poor opinion of him," stuff?

originally posted by: eeyipes
I have a feeling he may be his own worst judge in time.

Perhaps. I am still not sure I even believe my eyes and ears on this one.

BTW, here is a photo of the layout of the club. Escaping the patio was not an issue:

Layout

Tables to jump the fence...a wide exit.

Sorry. I just don't feel a lot of sympathy for this guy. He was home free and so were his friends on the patio.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Anathros

Great. You judge the bouncers, I judge this guy.

And, hey, I think you probably have a great point about the bouncers, BTW.

Also...vitriol? Oh geez...was it the "I have a very, very poor opinion of him," stuff?

Sorry Mother, the vitriol was not directed to you in general. Others spoke of blood on his hands and that kinda burnt my ass a bit. Do they really expect a comic book hero in a gay night club? Just because there was probably no lack of leather and rubber pants, you shouldn't expect that due to the setting of the attack. I'm not suggesting that the LBGT crowd lacks courage, but well..yes I suppose I am. This guy chose to save the people he cared about..in the same situation if our family members were on that side of the door..we can only speculate we'd done differently.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

That photo tells me nothing of the interior layout, or what the atmosphere was, what the lighting was like, what obstacles there were. You've had time to look at it and study it and figure out what the smart escape routes might have been. He didn't have your handy little map, just fear, gunshots, screaming and blood.

a reply to: gladtobehere

He contradicted himself and his story was all over the place. He said he was trying to help people out the door and just before that he said he was holding the door shut so the shooter couldn't get out, despite hearing people yell and bang on the door to get out? It made no sense. I hope this guy is being looked into. He's either part of it or a real idiot!

a reply to: Staroth

It is very common for victims of traumatic situations like this to be confused on the details of what happened. It doesn't discount his story or what he experienced. It may take him some time to really process what happened to him in a coherent and meaningful way. It doesn't make him a conspirator or an idiot, just human.

time.com...

originally posted by: eeyipes
a reply to: MotherMayEye

That photo tells me nothing of the interior layout, or what the atmosphere was, what the lighting was like, what obstacles there were. You've had time to look at it and study it and figure out what the smart escape routes might have been. He didn't have your handy little map, just fear, gunshots, screaming and blood.

Wait, I thought he was on the patio holding the door closed, not inside?

If my loved one was killed because they couldn't get out that door or injured from being trampled, I would probably demand a full investigation into this guy and make no apologies for my demand.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

And if your loved one survived because he held the door? Then what would you do?

a reply to: eeyipes

ask him if it was a bulletproof door ,because this is very suspect funny how you all believe this story
with no question as to what kind of door ,your just lapping it up like sheep ,
also he is clearly in shock when interviewed !

originally posted by: eeyipes
a reply to: MotherMayEye

And if your loved one survived because he held the door? Then what would you do?

It's not a relevant question. No one survived because he held the door closed. The shooter was not trying to escape through it. He was too busy shooting more people inside and holding people hostage in the bathroom.

a reply to: georgeglass

From the sound of it he was holding it shut because it exited into an alley which was flooded with people with more trying to exit and nobody could move. So he held the door so it couldn't fill the alley any more until people could then exit the alley. That's what it seems like to me....

I think he realized what he did and isn't dealing with it very well either. Sounds like he was freaking out and just trying to GTFO of there as best as possible.

He obviously made a very poor decision, and he has come to realize it, and will realize it more as time goes on. It will be hard to shut off the sounds of those people shouting for him to open the door. I think he will hear those voices always, whether he wants to or not.

Reminds me of the Titanic, when they locked the "poor" below so they wouldn't have a chance to get life boats away from the wealthy.

Maybe he was in a panic, but once outside, he should have taken off running as fast as he could. Why hang around, that's what doesn't make sense. If you can't help, leave.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

How do you know this? Were you there?

We can imagine a similar scenario. A shooter in a school hallway, people in the hallway running and screaming. Pounding on doors. A teacher in a locked room with a class full of kids. The shooter is coming. Frenzied victims are begging to come in. Does she unlock the door and risk them all, or bunker down and save her kids? Does she barracade the door and help her kids out the window, or open the door to others and risk them all get shot up? In this guy's mind at that moment, he felt like he was experiencing a situation like this. Maybe the true reality was different, but this was what his brain processed as his reality at that moment. He had no idea what was really going on the other side of the door or how close the shooter really was. For all he knew the guy was ready to burst in and kill them all. He is in a panicked state of mind. If they were stuck in a fenced area they could have easily been mowed down, the same as if they were stuck in a room with the guy.

Teachers have locked down in their classrooms during shootings and have been hailed as heros while others were being gunned downed in the hallways or nearby classrooms.

Look, I'm not saying this guy is a hero, but he is certainly no demon. He is a victim, almost just as much as those wounded and killed. He has to live with this for the rest of his life. He should never have been in this horrible situation in the first place ... the full of the blame falls on the shooter alone for every life taken.

I kinda feel for the guy. He panicked and did the what he thought was correct at the time. Put an obstacle between yourself and the shooter.

If he was trapped and had nowhere to go because people were trapped at the exit behind him then you can see why he held the door closed. Maybe what he did was heroic, maybe the shooter could have barged through the door and gunned everyone down in a confined space...who knows.?

The Guy Panicked, just like everyone else. At least he made a decision to do something instead of joining in the crush to escape.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

it is relevent nice try at deflection though,people had to hide in the undergrowth of bushes but you think he just stood there holding a non bulletproof door

a reply to: Soloprotocol

The Guy Panicked, just like everyone else. At least he made a decision to do something instead of joining in the crush to escape.

In this case, it looks like it would have been better if he had done nothing. He should have started running once he got outside.

eta: To make a fair comment I think we'd have to see the outside alley. Was it open, or did it have a wall? Could the wall be climbed and gotten over? Was the alley surrounded by buildings with no way out? I think fire codes would require a way out somehow.

Wish we had picts.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Soloprotocol

The Guy Panicked, just like everyone else. At least he made a decision to do something instead of joining in the crush to escape.

In this case, it looks like it would have been better if he had done nothing. He should have started running once he got outside.

If i caught the guy correctly he was trying to explain there was a bottleneck built up behind him. His only choices were to join the bottleneck and start clambering over bodies to escape or hold the door shut. He made the correct call as far as i can see.