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After Orlando, time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom: Neil Macdonald

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posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:33 AM
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originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: tothetenthpower

What in the world are you babbling about? It was a Muslim who killed the gay people. Refusing to take part in a gay marriage and murdering 50 people because they're gay are completely different things. Christians aren't murdering anybody. We get it you don't like Christians and you're a bigot.

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I agree that this is being used against Christians.

This was a radical ISIS follower not a Christian ... .

Christians aren't blowing up people around the world on a weekly basis. They are being burned alive
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ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
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However, to expect objectivity, balance and reasonableness at this time, in this era, on this topic is to be deluded that the public square still is able to encompass such things.
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Whereas actually, the public square has been soooo polluted with insanity from hell that rational dialogue on such issues is effectively prevented, trashed, shredded. And those who would stand for traditional foundational values are hounded out of the public square . . . and increasingly . . . into utter silence . . . and increasingly . . . to death.

. . . all in the name of . . . 'equal rights' . . . and . . . 'social justice' . . . . yada yada yada.




posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

imho, it's frightful that you actually believe what you wrote.

I don't think you have a faint hint of a beginning on an accurate grasp of the true statistics.

Nor do I care to bother in the vain and futile effort to try and inform you better.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:35 AM
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Freedom of religion doesn't give anybody the right to commit murder in American, murder is against the law of the nations, it only protects the rights of Americans to worship what they want, under our unique constitution.

But when people worship religions that put their religious laws over any other laws of the land, we have a problem.

This is an open invitation to brake any other laws that are no from within their religious laws.

Meaning that killing is allowed and encouraged and even view as a divine right under radicalism.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:36 AM
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originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: BO XIAN

Bo and all of those who think like you.....

Not so long ago left handedness was literally beaten out of children.

Not so long ago, black people were fighting segregation in America

Not so long ago interracial marriage was frowned upon.

Not long before all of that women united to fight for their right to vote.

Change happens. It needs to. By accepting gay, nobody is suggesting anyone become gay. Nor are they asking you to stop following your God. But they are asking to stop the hate towards them. After all as a Christian, you believe that it is God almighty who gets to pass final judgement, no?




I don't think Jesus has anything directly to say about any of them either. He does about marriage.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

That's because most people don't even stop to listen to what Christians actually do say. They listen to what people like Bill Maher say we say.

Or they did up they very worst examples of idiots and then claim we ALL say that. Here's the thing ... how long has that guy been saying that and how many times have Christians gone on rampages like that Muslim?

There is no equivalence except in the language you find. If there was, you'd have had a ton of mass shootings carried out by guys like that one.
edit on 13-6-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tothetenthpower

That's because most people don't even stop to listen to what Christians actually do say. They listen to what people like Bill Maher say we say.


And I don't disagree that the majority of Christians are just fine and it's their leaders on the more extreme end that just end up getting more coverage and yelling louder than the rest.

~Tenth



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tothetenthpower

That's because most people don't even stop to listen to what Christians actually do say. They listen to what people like Bill Maher say we say.


Really???

Well what about those of us who listen to what this Christian has to say???



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I edited my response above to account for him.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:41 AM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tothetenthpower

That's because most people don't even stop to listen to what Christians actually do say. They listen to what people like Bill Maher say we say.


And I don't disagree that the majority of Christians are just fine and it's their leaders on the more extreme end that just end up getting more coverage and yelling louder than the rest.

~Tenth


So the majority of us lose our freedom and rights because of the few?

I don't think so.

1.) You want to create more resentment and hatred of something, try to force its acceptance.

2.) Do you think it's an accident that the government and TPTB would think float balloons aimed at curtailing religious freedom now? It's not. Even Hillary says "freedom to worship" instead of "freedom of religion." There is a HUGE difference between the two phrases. And when the state gets into the church, it never goes well. People are always jailed and made political prisoners over points of belief alone. You think we have a jail crisis with non-violent offenders now?
edit on 13-6-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:43 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: BO XIAN

Bo and all of those who think like you.....

Not so long ago left handedness was literally beaten out of children.

Not so long ago, black people were fighting segregation in America

Not so long ago interracial marriage was frowned upon.

Not long before all of that women united to fight for their right to vote.

Change happens. It needs to. By accepting gay, nobody is suggesting anyone become gay. Nor are they asking you to stop following your God. But they are asking to stop the hate towards them. After all as a Christian, you believe that it is God almighty who gets to pass final judgement, no?




I don't think Jesus has anything directly to say about any of them either. He does about marriage.


That is debatable. When Jesus spoke of Eunuchs in Matt 19:12 the word Eunuch was colloquial for effeminate (gay) men too.

But I agree - true Christianity is not about rigid following of Old Testament law, it is about peace, love, forgiveness and redemption through Christ.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:43 AM
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ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Bears repeating with emphasis.


originally posted by: ketsuko
Let me help with this thread. Here are list of historical ways the religious have been handled when they get "uppity."

1.) Russia sent them off to gulags.

2.) North Korea I think does the same if they don't just shoot them [or have them be torn to shreds and eaten by starving dogs].

3.) Germany made them wear colored patches, live in certain districts and occasionally take showers (you gays ought to be familiar with this)

4.) Romans used them for entertainment. Used them [as burning lights] in spectacles with gladiators and lions and stuff.

Now given that you guys are also trying to kill off football and I don't really see Americans embracing soccer, my advice is that you might look at #4. You are going to need something to replace football in the American psyche.

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Well put. However, we know that the murderous hideousness will increase . . . in the name of PC and worse.
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We KNOW that Christians are scheduled to be exterminated wholesale off the planet as much as God allows them to get away with it. There is no doubt about that.
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It is only a matter of time.
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Rapidly dwindling time.
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posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I'm not saying he's like every other Christian.

But what about guys like him??? Does he not concern you??? The fact he has a church with followers who listen to what he has to say doesn't worry you either???

You're against Islam for the sh*t it tells it's followers aren't you??? Can the same not be applied here???

I don't think all Christians think like this guy, but that doesn't mean I'm any less worried about those who do.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: markosity1973

I am needing to head off to work, but I will have to look up Matthew 19.

But his teaching on marriage to the Pharisees was very clear. It had to be. It is between a man and a woman.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:48 AM
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originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

imho, it's frightful that you actually believe what you wrote.

I don't think you have a faint hint of a beginning on an accurate grasp of the true statistics.

Nor do I care to bother in the vain and futile effort to try and inform you better.


The only thing frightful is that the religiously minded posters here refuse to acknowledge that they're not perfect. That members of their own community are just as reprehensible. The muslims piss me off too, but the hypocrisy of the christians who spew endless threads attacking gays, then make accusatory remarks about others is maddening.

I visit ATS because I prefer to embrace truth and deny ignorance. Obviously others prefer to embrace ignorance if differing comments doesn't reinforce their social or religious agenda.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:48 AM
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ISIL obviously uses Islam in their ideology, but to me this is a culture war. They want to kill all who live differently, and justify it with religion.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko


So the majority of us lose our freedom and rights because of the few?


No I'm not asking anybody to loose rights and freedoms. I'm asking that they don't create laws that are ONLY used to discriminate against a specific group.


1.) You want to create more resentment and hatred of something, try to force its acceptance.


Plenty of that to go around already, I don't hate anybody, I hate when people use their beliefs to discriminate.

~Tenth



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: ketsuko

I'm not saying he's like every other Christian.

But what about guys like him??? Does he not concern you??? The fact he has a church with followers who listen to what he has to say doesn't worry you either???

You're against Islam for the sh*t it tells it's followers aren't you??? Can the same not be applied here???

I don't think all Christians think like this guy, but that doesn't mean I'm any less worried about those who do.


How many Christians have gone out and acted on it by murdering people?

That's the only reason why I am against Islam, and not even all of it. If people who followed Islam didn't tend to have an alarming trend toward mass killing of others, I could care less what they say about you, me, gays, or men who "f" their dogs for that matter. That is their business and they can think we are going to hell and a hand basket when we die for all I care.

Now if his followers start murdering people wholesale, THEN we can have that talk, but they don't tend to. They have their private beliefs or occasionally open their mouths like this one and say stupid stuff. That doesn't kill people though.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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To the Christians on this thread. I think you are wise enough to not be radicalized and maybe we will some day see real insanity again from radicalized Christians but they are an extreme minority.

Unfortunately that is not the same with the Muslim community. And to point it out there are people of all view including Muslim who follow the golden rule perfectly. But to point out a problem in a culture is not being hateful. You cannot be hateful when you express what is close to objective fact. Lying about the problem do not solve the problem.


edit on 13-6-2016 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:53 AM
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originally posted by: BO XIAN
ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Bears repeating with emphasis.


originally posted by: ketsuko
Let me help with this thread. Here are list of historical ways the religious have been handled when they get "uppity."

1.) Russia sent them off to gulags.

2.) North Korea I think does the same if they don't just shoot them [or have them be torn to shreds and eaten by starving dogs].

3.) Germany made them wear colored patches, live in certain districts and occasionally take showers (you gays ought to be familiar with this)

4.) Romans used them for entertainment. Used them [as burning lights] in spectacles with gladiators and lions and stuff.

Now given that you guys are also trying to kill off football and I don't really see Americans embracing soccer, my advice is that you might look at #4. You are going to need something to replace football in the American psyche.

.
Well put. However, we know that the murderous hideousness will increase . . . in the name of PC and worse.
.
We KNOW that Christians are scheduled to be exterminated wholesale off the planet as much as God allows them to get away with it. There is no doubt about that.
.
It is only a matter of time.
.
Rapidly dwindling time.
.


Gays have been persecuted since the beginning of time, so I see little validity in your argument.

In fact, as a baptised and confirmed Catholic I would be just as likely to be killed for being Christian as I would be for being gay in somewhere like ISIS controlled Syria / Iraq.

ALL hate crimes are deplorable.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 07:54 AM
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originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

(not counting this as a "muslim terror attack until religion is confirmed as the motivating factor)


Yeah because chanting Aloha Snackbar while slaughtering 50 people just isn't enough huh?


edit on 13-6-2016 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



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