Are humans inherently good or evil or neither?

originally posted by: FlyingFox
There is the principle throughout epic literature that; In doing justice, you become unjust yourself.

This is something I've thought about a lot. See, I've killed men overseas that were killing their own people and killing my own people who were trying to save civilians. Now, that seems like dealing justice, but at the same time, I was preventing deaths by causing others. That seems unjust. I believe my actions can be viewed as "good" and "evil". Which, however, is true? Maybe neither. Maybe it's all based upon perception. Maybe both are true. Duality at its finest.

Inherent means built in... inborn. This idea is rooted off of a concept of origional sin... that youre a bad little monkey before even grasping a single thing in the world except life.

So inherent is fallacious... no one is born good or bad, they are born into good or bad situations. What they do with that situation is called coping or a mental adaptation to adversity that can manifest as physical in many varied ways, good or bad for themself or good or bad for others, they are not mutually exclusive to one or the other, since everyone has their own opinions and coping on life and the adversity it throws at them, but mind you adversity doesnt mean just negative, as there is such a thing of complacency and once one is bored or disengaged with life they escape and focus on something else other than themselves in the external world as theyve not seen much adversity in the external, other than a threat to their bubble that may actually cause them adversity, and in such hyper control over others not oneself, will feel wholly justified in what get called high horses and ivory towers... because their world is justified and self rationalized as already being perfect or spotless and see any adversity as dirt or grime or filth or disgusting.

So even in complacency, there is adversity but it is externalized... of course its typical of ignorance of lack of experience or being out of touch with any reality except a cloistered controlled reality... but the illusion is that it is lasting and permanent, but in such great fear that it isnt then they use their power, position, and influence over others to try to make sure no one gets near their bubble... the mode of living in such a way is fear it may by all appearances seem like heaven on earth. Mansions without want etc. but it is where everything becomes an expression of matter without much though to the energy it takes to make everything operate... as there is little need to expend any energy except pacing the carpet or worried that that bubble or illusion will pop.

It will pop of course on death if not before, and it is why so many are trying or seeking eternity, some of them trying to seek it simply as an escape from suffering from all those living in fear of suffering... but if both sides worked together? The world would becomes a much better place and evolves into one of co-operation as both sides see the other as the issue causing them to suffer.

The path is easy of course... cease watering ones ideas of ignorance that keeps oneself and others ignorant... because it blossoms bias, and bias leads into that control thinking people are good or bad as some permanent state, instead of adapting and coping in the best way they can with the tools available they were born into. Of course, education is supposed to hand people a tool set other than the one born with to build something they want out of life.

Whether that occurs towards expected models is variable based on the conditions of life and the adversities good and bad one comes across in how they cope with them.

This arises because of that, this is the chain of causation, everything is dependent on something else to be or not to be manifest in this never beginning never ending thing we call a universe as both matter and energy which cannot be created or destroyed just change form... which means energy seems sort of tangible yet intangible it animates, it powers, it bonds and it detaches what? Matter. This means matter is simly a fluctuating potiential and whether something matters to you or anyone else is also a fluctuating potiential... and usually based on experience itself in a way of understanding, and growth beyond attachments to either the energy unseen that people call spirituality or seen people call matter.

Greed, hate, and ignorance of this entire process is delusion or illusion. It doesnt really matter if you dont mind... meaning either you know about it or you dont. But clinging to a limited fragment of experience as yes yes know all about it... um no you dont, unless already cognizant of what i am speaking of using conceptual bubbles of unreality to exlain reality. The key to unraveling the ego limited self and all of these tiny limited fragments of experience that arise and pass and are never the same monent to moment to moment except by stagnation of memory attempting to control impermanence.

Is a hotdog a hotdog? Even if it is the same brand, same bun, made to the exact specifications not only atomically it is different... you are too as billions of cells in ones body are constantly in flux changing as well... so weve trained ourselves and others into these ideas and concepts as lasting with the possibility of them having some permanence, yet these experiences die with you unless shared or passed to be carried along... because they were not actual reality of experience just a limited window or view of something which only labeled and difined, then on birth that passed or carried along lands on ones head and shoulders yet again.

Theres the full cycle... so ask oneself again: inherent or inherited?

Half good, half evil. That's pretty much the definition of the basic human.

How a human chooses to manifest, for life or in a given moment, is a whole other discussion.

originally posted by: FlyingFox

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Are humans inherently good or evil or neither?

No one is 'inherently' 'good' or 'evil'.
Like all 'value', like all 'beauty', like all 'meaning'; ALL 'good', and ALL 'evil', exists in the (vain judgmental) ego (imagination/thoughts) of the beholder!

"We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"

That is fine, but

I love 'fine but's', but how about 'fine, AND's'? *__-

I left it to an esoteric standard to make the distinction between good and evil.

What 'esoteric standard'? What is that? There are no 'Universal definitions' of the terms. What is an 'esoteric standard', please? And how does it refute the Truth that I offered?
Is there some 'esoteric standard' of 'beauty'? Of 'ugly'?

Google told me this, first off;

es·o·ter·ic
ˌesəˈterik/
adjective
adjective: esoteric

" intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest."

It appears that I have offered the 'esoteric standard', which isn't 'standard' at all!
The only 'distinction between the two lies in the Perspective (and vain judgmental imagination) of the beholder.
There is no evidence or logic in support of 'good' or 'evil', 'beauty' or 'ugly', being anywhere other than in the eye of the beholder!
Esoteric or otherwise.

In a way, we think there are there are absolutes of good and evil, but it's not as simple as it seems.

"We"?
"WE!"?
"I am no we!"
"I don' know no steenkin' we!"

What is simplistic is imagining that one can break open a rock and find something called 'value', or 'worth', or 'beauty'...
It's just elements; silicon, carbon, oxygen and a bit of iron for the 'color'... that exists in Our Mind!
ALL 'distinctions', all 'identity', all 'duality'... is imaginary!
Make-believe!
Reality (ALL inclusive) is One!

Look at the example of infanticide. On one hand it is deplorable evil as agreed upon, a standard of evil in our culture.

A 'standard of evil', perhaps, to the insane who believe that 'evil' exists 'out there'.
That is ignorance.
Ignorance is the 'standard'!
What infanticide is, without the insane judgment, is murder, illegal!
We, as a group living in proximity, define our standards of behavior and, for those with no ethics, we codify our standards of behavior (theoretically) into law!
The reason that such vain ('conditional') judgment was and is the 'original' and only 'sin' (consuming the forbidden 'fruit' = believing what you think and feel, and manifesting it!) is because such sinsanity blinds the vain practitioner to unconditional Love!
It is a 'standard of behavior', perhaps, but I do not indulge in such vain judgments as 'good' and 'evil'!
The eye of unconditional Love NEVER sees 'good' and 'evil', it ALWAYS see the Beloved!

On the other hand, traditions of such things run throughout human history, but often for the stated reason, "for the good of...." the group, or even for the benefit of the affected individual! How contradictory is that?

That infant that was just murdered, not only carried the only surviving gene that would mutate and wipe out 2/3 of the human race, but he would murder millions with violence and warfare before the gene mutation manifested in his future wife!
That the gene pool was cleansed of his genes exactly when it was, allowed YOUR grandchildren to go to college and one of them cured cancer, wile all learned to Love, and made the world a better place for us all!
THAT is why it is vain insanity to 'judge' others!

Recently, the atomic bombing twice of Japan is debated as "wrong" or somehow "evil". On the other hand, I would argue that Japan brought it on themselves.

Like the woman asked to be raped because she was not covered from head to toe?
Exact same thing!
Japan was RUNNING to the surrender table, especially after Russia joined and took Mongolia!
Japan was already pen in hand, on their knees!
That we nuked them, twice, for no more reason than our fcuking insane vengeance for having the raw nerve to attack God's Holy 'Murikkka in the first place!
WE do the atakkin' 'cause God Loves 'Murikkka!!
Lets keep the lie going (and it is a well known lie) that it was our Holy Bombing of the 'Evil Nips' (tm) that ended the war!
Shall we support the disgusting ignorance!

In a way, the best answer is maybe closer to the reply of nameless, that two wrongs do not make a right.
Hey!
That's me! *__-

But three rights make a left...
And three lefts make a right!
Seven lefts also make a right, right?
Or are you left in the dark?

My college, University of Pennsylvania has an interesting motto, it translates as "Without Morals, Laws are Useless".

Generally, I apply it to political matters, but here it seems to have an even deeper meaning.

I'll chime back in tomorrow, it's been a long day. Thanks for all the replies people.

Lazy and greedy.
and lac of empathy.
so yes evil.

a reply to: buddha

thats not what you said in my book

www.vipassana.co.uk...

"Traditionally, Buddhists are reluctant to talk about the ultimate nature of human beings. But those who are willing to make descriptive statements at all usually say that our ultimate essence or Buddha nature is pure, holy and inherently good."

a reply to: FlyingFox

If there is anything to learn about our universe is that it is made up of many dualities: hot & cold, positive & negative, in & out, etc. You literally could not have one without the other. So, do I believe there is both good & evil? Sure do, because I've seen plenty of good things in my life. I've also seen a lot of perceived "bad" things too. I think that "evil" is a religious construct, made to put the 'fear of God' into people. Sure humans do a lot of bad things, but what things are Trulyevil? How do we know for sure what is evil? Since perceptions differ, we can't be 100% sure.

It's why I am moved by Taoism. It doesn't try to force us to adopt someone's perceptions. It merely says (paraphrasing) that there is light & dark. The way to happiness is to live in harmony with both. Acknowledge them, accept them for what they are, and just go with the flow... Simple... as poundcake

a reply to: Iam1Zender

Light and dark is a duality and it sits in the center hub of the wheel of life or bhava chakra... Taoism is supposed to be in motion... take the black and white of yin and yang an spin it... then what color is it? Spin is spin left handed or right handed makes no difference all that is left is a grey area... and now you are back to the same place before choosing Taoism.

Taoism being a concept is a rabbit hole like any other concept to grasp or study that can cause what as an effect? Same thing one was doing before such grasping at the intagible. Now theres just a different banner or different line to draw and argue from instead of what? Something you already do any way... live. Grasp and draw those lines then what does one have? Art or death by some chosen standard, when art can be anything keeping life magical and one in constant awe.

As many new adherants to something? There are towo choices... see the brush I pointed at or defend one in hand... Im not holding the brush Im pointing at btw just the one youve been looking for... so grab it and paint or be broad with knowledge and make an entire set...

Either way? Its all art.

a reply to: FlyingFox

It is overly simplistic to suggest that we can corral "people" to fit into these sets.
While I do not believe "people" are inherently good or evil, I do believe that there are inherently both good and evil persons in abundance, but in the singular. This response on not intended to be semantic in tone or reference by any stretch of the imagination.
Many will say that myth is simply that... myth. However, if one wishes to understand a fraction of the nature of evil, it just might be a good idea to dust of your copy of Beowulf and read it for what it truly is... a dissertation on the true nature of humankind.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

just cus its duality doesnt mean you cant live an existence which is Good. people on earth live heavenly lives, some live in hell
i really like what this guy says about light and darkness

breatharian.info...

"Beings choose where they stay – this defines the direction of their activity.
They move towards the sun (light) and creation of matter or they move
towards the black hole (darkness) and killing of matter."

knowledge and a focused consciousness. is what we need

www.metaphysicalmusing.com...

alot has to to do with the way we're bought up as well,
most of us were led to beleive, we needed 3 square cooked meals a day to function well in society
i dont see it like this anymore

www.truthkeeperz.com...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZN3HGiS4zw

a doctor with understanding of spirit

www.youtube.com/watch?v=87uWGAiv88o

very rare

Food changes our consciousness, quite a lot. I really think that a human in his/her natural state, free from the effects of bad food, is unquestionably Good.

forum.breatharian.info...

forum.breatharian.info...

anyone that has fasted for a while could confirm this

religious people, they say that the body is like a temple for the spirit. and that Cleanliness is next to Godliness.

Clean body = happy spirit

humans are individuals period.