Water from nothing?

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Um, water from nothing was the thread title, just saying

a reply to: Raggedyman

thanks for that, I don't need your help tho

Schooldays science....

Hmmmmmm....

originally posted by: Raggedyman
There was nothing, a bigbang and then water, simple
If you believe that, everything came from nothing

you cant get anything from nothing because nothing has nothing , so you need something to get something out of something

So... Does that mean the Hindenburg disaster was a watery one? hehe

a reply to: namelesss

Anti-matter is nothing. Or rather it's the lack of something.

The mitochondria in our bodies forego this reaction constantly. H+ (protons) are pumped into the inner membrane and then leave through a turbine-like protein called ATP synthase. This generates ATP (energy) and 4 H+ reforms with O2 to create a couple water molecules. This is the basis of energy production in biological systems.

I have more comments regarding the amazingly complex and synchronized process that is involved in energy production, but I will let you make your own conclusions.

a reply to: Dr UAE


Maybe my wording was a little vague but when I say nothing, I just mean generating water from no supply. Even without moisture, even though I do post a method for gaining water from moisture in our air.

My initial thoughts about this and question was the curiosity of creating water, how water the liquid comes to be. After all, it is much more important then food, diamonds or any other material product we clash over.

I would just think it would be a great study and project that we could all create, after all we all need it.

In my mind the idea of seeing a large container empty, to then seeing it full of water would be an amazing achievement.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Raggedyman
There was nothing, a bigbang and then water, simple
If you believe that, everything came from nothing

There was at least a generation of stars between the bang and water molecules. Because there wasn't any oxygen until the stars made it out of hydrogen.

Really, Clever stars wernt they, have they evolved, can they now do alchemy???
Can you show me evidence or just guessing

Bedlam was talking about the process of stellar nucleosynthesis, Stars begin as a large accumulation of Hydrogen atoms. Gravitation draws them together and compresses them. As you will know from your school days science, if you compress a gas, it gets hot. If you get enough heat and enough pressure, like in the core of a star, the individual Hydrogen atoms fuse together, four Hydrogens turn into two Heliums and they release more heat in the process.

This process of atomic fusion goes on until the star uses up most of its fuel. The explosive outwards pressure runs out and gravity takes over, crushing the core of the star with more pressure, producing more heat until the next nuclear fusion stage ignites and the star begins burning Helium and producing Lithium. This ignition usually blows the outer shell of the star out, distributing helium and hydrogen out across space. We call that process a nova.

This whole burn out of fuel and then fusion of heavier elements (with novas at each new step) goes on through: Carbon, Neon, Oxygen, Silicon and so on... producing heavier and heavier elements.

Of course, when there is not enough fuel left to burn, the process stops and the star will eventually cool, so for smaller stars, the process doesn't get through all the elements, they just stop and die. More massive stars have more fuel, so they go for longer.

It is an alchemy of a sorts - the transmutation of one substance into another.

... and we're not really guessing as we can do some of the stages for ourselves and can see it happening in nature. That is what nuclear physics is all about.

We see it happening in nature, what, water coming from nothing, really?
Alchemy, really, that's pretty weird stuff you believe in

So evidence? Should I just take you at your word, either is fine

I never said anything about water coming from nothing, I was talking about stellar nucleosynthesis, the process that creates heavier elements from lighter ones. The stuff has to be there in the first place.

But, if you want to know about theories of how stuff may have come from nothing, you could research super-symmetry, the Casimir effect and Hawking radiation. Just theoretical but not irrational.

By the way, I am a Christian and believe that God is the creator of everything, but He did it with reason and with purpose and in an ordered way. Science can give us a little understanding of that order.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: namelesss

Anti-matter is nothing. Or rather it's the lack of something.

Anti matter looks and acts exactly like regular matter. its subatomic particles simply have a charge that is opposite regular matter.

For example, a regular electron has a negative charge (or what we arbitrarily call a "negative charge". A Positron (such as the particle used in a medical PET scan) is an electron with a charge opposite that -- or what we would call a positive charge. However, that positron certainly exists, and it is not "the lack of something".

Stuff made of antiparticles would look and act like stuff made of normal matter -- but normal matter and anti matter would annihilate each other if they came in contact. The theory goes that there was much more matter and antimatter in the very early universe than there is now, but most of that matter and antimatter annihilated each other. However, it's possible that there are entire galaxies made of clumps of antimatter that never experienced the matter-antimatter annihilation, and somehow remained secluded from matter.

These hypothetical antimatter galaxies would act just like a regular matter galaxy, but on a "secluded island" far enough away from regular matter that annihilation does not take place. Such a galaxy would, from afar, look exactly like a galaxy made of regular matter.

a reply to: BlackProject

you might have to science the crap out of it but if you know the formula you can just burn it

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Really, Clever stars wernt they, have they evolved, can they now do alchemy???
Can you show me evidence or just guessing

Perhaps you've heard of...fusion. It happens to be the way stars get their energy.

originally posted by: chr0naut


I never said anything about water coming from nothing, I was talking about stellar nucleosynthesis, the process that creates heavier elements from lighter ones. The stuff has to be there in the first place.

But, if you want to know about theories of how stuff may have come from nothing, you could research super-symmetry, the Casimir effect and Hawking radiation. Just theoretical but not irrational.

By the way, I am a Christian and believe that God is the creator of everything, but He did it with reason and with purpose and in an ordered way. Science can give us a little understanding of that order.

Thanks Chro
I am aware you are a Christian, I have no grudge or animosity towards your beliefs, at all.
Just asked for evidence
The thread was about water from nothing, that was my issue.

I am not really interested in theories, just asked for evidence to a statement I was encouraged to accept.
I am some what dubious of the big bang, the idea that stuff comes from nothing, energy was created from nothing, water just appeared, alchemy or the elemental table from nothing, all sounds a little strange

I got Bedlam telling me stars get their energy from fusion, where do the atomic nuclei get their energy from, the big bang, was that fusion from nothing.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut


I never said anything about water coming from nothing, I was talking about stellar nucleosynthesis, the process that creates heavier elements from lighter ones. The stuff has to be there in the first place.

But, if you want to know about theories of how stuff may have come from nothing, you could research super-symmetry, the Casimir effect and Hawking radiation. Just theoretical but not irrational.

By the way, I am a Christian and believe that God is the creator of everything, but He did it with reason and with purpose and in an ordered way. Science can give us a little understanding of that order.

Thanks Chro
I am aware you are a Christian, I have no grudge or animosity towards your beliefs, at all.
Just asked for evidence
The thread was about water from nothing, that was my issue.

I am not really interested in theories, just asked for evidence to a statement I was encouraged to accept.
I am some what dubious of the big bang, the idea that stuff comes from nothing, energy was created from nothing, water just appeared, alchemy or the elemental table from nothing, all sounds a little strange

I got Bedlam telling me stars get their energy from fusion, where do the atomic nuclei get their energy from, the big bang, was that fusion from nothing.

Because the OP spoke of distillation systems and combining gasses, I assumed that their "from nothing" comment had the meaning of "from nowhere I can see".

It is theorized that Hydrogen is actually created spontaneously "out of noting" in the vacuum of space, all the time. It doesn't require the Big Bang one-time event.

To understand this, you have to know about virtual particles and how they work. Wikipedia has a good article on the Casimir effect which arises from, and demonstrates, this.

These virtual particles appear and disappear in pairs each with opposite charge. Normally these paired virtual particles annihilate back to nothing according to a theory called Supersymmetry. But, occasionally the particles DON'T cancel exactly for some reason (Supersymmetry is 'broken'). This leaves 'real' particles behind after the process. These particles interact in the normal manner described by physics, forming matter.

The simplest atom is the Hydrogen atom - just one electron and one proton. The abundance of Hydrogen in empty space seems to speak of its spontaneous generation, in fact one type of spacecraft drive, the Bussard Ramjet, relies on Hydrogen abundances caused by spontaneous Hydrogen creation in the spaces between galaxies - at least, that's the theory.

originally posted by: chr0naut

Because the OP spoke of distillation systems and combining gasses, I assumed that their "from nothing" comment had the meaning of "from nowhere I can see".

It is theorized that Hydrogen is actually created spontaneously "out of noting" in the vacuum of space, all the time. It doesn't require the Big Bang one-time event.

To understand this, you have to know about virtual particles and how they work. Wikipedia has a good article on the Casimir effect which arises from, and demonstrates, this.

These virtual particles appear and disappear in pairs each with opposite charge. Normally these paired virtual particles annihilate back to nothing according to a theory called Supersymmetry. But, occasionally the particles DON'T cancel exactly for some reason (Supersymmetry is 'broken'). This leaves 'real' particles behind after the process. These particles interact in the normal manner described by physics, forming matter.

The simplest atom is the Hydrogen atom - just one electron and one proton. The abundance of Hydrogen in empty space seems to speak of its spontaneous generation, in fact one type of spacecraft drive, the Bussard Ramjet, relies on Hydrogen abundances caused by spontaneous Hydrogen creation in the spaces between galaxies - at least, that's the theory.

Because the OP spoke of distillation from nothing I was clarifying the nothing, water from air, thats called humidity to us laymen, kinda obvious

Hydrogen could indeed come from nothing, like some believe the whole universe, now multi verses (theory) came from nothing
Maybe we all live in an empty space and have come from nothing and will then disappear randomly.
The question remains where does the energy come from, the future ???
Sorry, thats just expecting to much from my imagination

I am not saying its wrong, just dont accept the theory of something from nothing no matter how many times it pops up, takes a lot of faith

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

Because the OP spoke of distillation systems and combining gasses, I assumed that their "from nothing" comment had the meaning of "from nowhere I can see".

It is theorized that Hydrogen is actually created spontaneously "out of noting" in the vacuum of space, all the time. It doesn't require the Big Bang one-time event.

To understand this, you have to know about virtual particles and how they work. Wikipedia has a good article on the Casimir effect which arises from, and demonstrates, this.

These virtual particles appear and disappear in pairs each with opposite charge. Normally these paired virtual particles annihilate back to nothing according to a theory called Supersymmetry. But, occasionally the particles DON'T cancel exactly for some reason (Supersymmetry is 'broken'). This leaves 'real' particles behind after the process. These particles interact in the normal manner described by physics, forming matter.

The simplest atom is the Hydrogen atom - just one electron and one proton. The abundance of Hydrogen in empty space seems to speak of its spontaneous generation, in fact one type of spacecraft drive, the Bussard Ramjet, relies on Hydrogen abundances caused by spontaneous Hydrogen creation in the spaces between galaxies - at least, that's the theory.

Because the OP spoke of distillation from nothing I was clarifying the nothing, water from air, thats called humidity to us laymen, kinda obvious

Hydrogen could indeed come from nothing, like some believe the whole universe, now multi verses (theory) came from nothing
Maybe we all live in an empty space and have come from nothing and will then disappear randomly.
The question remains where does the energy come from, the future ???
Sorry, thats just expecting to much from my imagination

I am not saying its wrong, just dont accept the theory of something from nothing no matter how many times it pops up, takes a lot of faith

Yeah, but God is a whole lot cleverer than us. It'll take us a while, if we ever can understand it at all.

a reply to: chr0naut

Yep and thats why I would never say it was wrong
Something from nothing invariably always comes from something I find

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: namelesss

Anti-matter is nothing. Or rather it's the lack of something.

No, it isn't.
You named 'something'; anti-matter!
You cannot name anything that is not a thing!
There is no thing that is also no'thing'.
Every 'thing' exists.
Even 'nothing' if not anything else, is the second 'recognizable' word in this sentence.
There can be no 'lack of something'.
That 'lack' in itself, is a 'lack', a 'something'!
A word with meaning; I lack an education!
Lots of meaning!
But sans the 'education', remains the rest of the Universe in existence!
'Lack' of education does not = lack of everything!
The entire Universe = ALL that exists!
There is no 'beyond' what is, no 'other', no 'not anything'!
There is no such thing as a perfect vacuum in Nature, and even a 'perfect vacuum' is a thing, like 'nothing', a word.
Without even a 'concept' to fill in the darkness.
Apple is a word, and there are many concepts of apple.
'Nothing' does not share such manifest Being.

Long time ago on TV in UK
a BBC open university program.
they have liquide 1:hydrogen and 2xygen
they porn they to gether and get water!

maybe with the gasses you can use high presure.

originally posted by: buddha
Long time ago on TV in UK
a BBC open university program.
they have liquide 1:hydrogen and 2

xygen
they porn they to gether and get water!

maybe with the gasses you can use high presure.

If you light hydrogen gas with a match, you get water (and an explosion), because combustion uses oxygen a chemical process. Many rockets burn hydrogen as a fuel, and mixed with enough oxygen (more than what is ambient in the air around them to aid in that combustion. The byproduct of this hydrogen combustion in a rocket is water.

Heck, in fact automobiles create water out of their exhaust pipes, as well as other more nasty stuff. The water in a car's exhaust comes from the hydrocarbon fossil fuel. As the fuel is burned, and the hydrogen in the hydrocarbon fossil fuel chemically reacts with the oxygen, binding it into water molecules.

As for pressure, I suppose there is a very high pressure that would theoretically introduce enough energy into a system that the hydrogen and oxygen would bind, but I;m not sure if other chemical reactions would take place before that (maybe the oxygens bind to each other).

However, why both with the pressure when a simple match would do?