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Chemtrail debunkers may have lost the plot.

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posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 07:47 AM
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Oh Jubila and Jubilo, I am more guilty than you both. I have been a "debunker" of chemtrails for a while now. I do it for the challenge of changing a mind. Now this is kind of an inside joke among us that most minds are firmly made up long before the post is made and will NOT be changed. But every now and then, you do find a true fence sitter.

But the way this happens is to ENGAGE IN DEBATE, not to shut down any discussion right off. I have tried to get better at this, but among some of the other posts, that get's lost quickly. It seems the debunkers here have plenty of knowledge on the subject, enough to quell most claims. But the art of the game is just as important. Engage in conversation, don't rudely shut down the thread with "Proof or your an idiot!!".

There is a current thread about this very thing and based on member response, it's well worth thinking about. I don't mean anyone should not post opinions, not at all. But I think using a lot more tact, a lot more compassion, and a lot more patience needs to be exercised. (Myself included)

To all those who would post chemtrail threads, please do that. It's what this place is about. I just hope in the future there can be more debates, more discourse and less aggressive posting.




posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Hear, hear! Civility has its place.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam
My God what has happened to ATS, people calling for respect and debate !!!!!! I must be more hungover than ever before
, I will come back tomorrow and see if this post is still here or was it just a dream.



edit on 12-6-2016 by imod02 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 09:00 AM
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I'm not sure I agree that the debunkers are being rude. Sorry.

Sure, we may be straight to the point sometimes, but I don't see us being off most off the time.

We are dealing with people who make big claims, refuse to do ANY research on the subject and call us shills, if there is any soul searching to be done, it's not from the debunkers. Well, not in my opinion at least.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: network dude




I don't mean anyone should not post opinions, not at all. But I think using a lot more tact, a lot more compassion, and a lot more patience needs to be exercised.


Thank you for this. I thought the expression was Deny Ignorance, not be intolerant of it.

I recently saw two threads, both from OPs who were heroes of mine. And they were on subjects that sort of overlapped, depending on which side of the fence you were on.

I asked the OP of one of them a question and got sort of a snippy reaction. I had also commented on something that later, after seeing the other thread, thought that maybe I was mistaken, so I did some research, seeing that someone else was of the same, possibly false, opinion. Also this OP had said that people should learn about a certain new subject before asking any questions about it, so between 2AM and 3AM, since this was the only free time I had, I was researching said subject and came up with nothing. Perhaps I was just too tired (or old!) to understand what I was reading. I was going to ask if perhaps they used a different search engine or something, but thank God, I hadn't posted yet, because what I found was a comment along the lines of "A's for poster X,Y and Z, and the rest of you are scum." Now, that's a paraphrase, as it didn't say that at all, but it sure said that to me. And I will NEVER post on that author's threads again.

At the same time, there was another thread by another OP, and this person was welcoming and invited thoughts and comments, and then interacted with the replies with kindness and tolerance.

Then there was a third thread about this same subject but it was more generic and I was glad to have the opportunity to say something there, but I saw how quickly this thing grew, page after page, and it had that feel of "ain't it awful" with everyone just complaining. So I got "this close" to being able to say what I am wanting to say here, and then didn't.

Your post, so far, is that Goldilocks, just right for me, and what I consider should be, one-size-fits-all presentation regarding something that just hasn't quite been said properly yet. I hope others read it and agree, but even saying that has me subconsciously ducking. And that's the problem. I'm all for discussion, disagreements, questions, but please, enough with the intolerance. That's the one thing I just can't tolerate!

So, I am still red-light, green-lighting my way around these unwritten rules on ATS, and one that keeps getting me flustered is this thing about one line posts. I often do one line posts because I don't want to waste people's time, or use up too many bytes on ATS. In fact, one of my favorite replies from someone lately was just a green thumbs up.

Fishy


Edit: Oh, gosh, this thread is about Chemtrails! I read it differently. So, I don't know if I was off the subject or not....sigh...but I'm still glad I got to say this!
edit on 12-6-2016 by ClownFish because: added edit comment



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 09:24 AM
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cool this world is capable of showing anything....wild, crazy, evil, sexual or faith busting.....

it's not really so " cut and dried "....huh! I've seen strange sights on the ground.....unexplainable bigg time fella.....why not in the sky too? Makes one wonder....who the hail is operating this place, huh! the sky has been looking different is a major clue....that's not conclusive in itself but us earthdwellers are on the contrail/ chemtrail case, huh?

edit on 12-6-2016 by GBP/JPY because: our new King.....He comes right after a nicely done fake one

edit on 12-6-2016 by GBP/JPY because: yessirrr



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: network dude




But I think using a lot more tact, a lot more compassion, and a lot more patience needs to be exercised. (Myself included)


The only problem is that when you explain what they are seeing you get the same reaction...they are real and you can't tell me any different...and after so many years and the same old BS get's posted by sometimes new members, and sometimes old members, but the same none the less.

It becomes frustrating when you see the same BS thread after thread...and IMO that is one reason we see what we have in these threads.

And one last thought for those who get upset at what another says...do not take it personally.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Very well said



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 11:55 AM
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I understand what you are trying to say Network Dude, obviously tact and patience are a virtue. I have noticed a shift in your posts recently.

But I have to agree with what tsurfer said above. Maybe you need to refresh your memory on exactly what kind of responses debunkers get when they politely point out the facts. It's boring, frustrating, annoying, etc...

Sure, I could avoid this sub forum, but I'm strangely attracted to it.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 01:21 PM
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My current opinion on chemtrails is that most trails we see are contrails, but the ones that last longer and spread out and when there has become an obvious grid pattern combined with the above, we are looking at chemtrail fuel. And furthermore my opinion is that this is a program designed to reduce global temperatures.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

If you go back into this forum, there used to be very lively debates. Of course it was the same old stuff, posted over, and over again, there isn't any real proof to be had, which is why we all have answers and everyone posts them on page 1. Believe me when I say it's hard to change. I want so badly to reply to each post and offer my opinion which I am sure everyone needs to hear right now. But I have been trying to hold off, and let other posts stand on their own, as they already made the point I wanted to get across.

If we don't change how we act in this form, it's death will be quick and sad. If I have to resort to explaining roundness to flat Earther's, I might just stop altogether. that isn't much of a challenge when you ask to see the edge.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Network Dude, I'm one of those fence sitters. I prefer to consider myself as being objective.

I came from the believers side, believing the government was spraying to control the population. Eventually as I researched with my own observations and reading I moved to the middle. The evidence from the believers was much more agenda driven and seemed to focus on emotional arguments as matters of fact. The debunkers however did not convince me to move to their side as they too seem to play on the emotions with their arogance and dismissive attitude, which to me shows more insecurities with their own position of "nothing to see here, move along". It became a battle of I'm right your wrong and no one is listing or observing objectively.

I think the core of all this battling is less about if they are spraying us with chemicals or controlling the weather, but more about if you trust your government. If your convinced that the government and its military has our best interest in mind and is only trying to help progress humanity, or the government or TPTB are nefarious and are always looking for ways to control and destroy.

The middle for me is; yes I believe the government has our best interest in mind, yet there are observable patterns of nefarious behavior from groups and agency's who assume power. Greed and control are real and can infect any level of government or individual, so I don't doubt that they could be spraying or controlling the weather, whether it's for our own good is what I need to figure out. I will say this it is much easier living as though everything is on the up and up, honestly, I don't have time to pursue my skepticism. I don't want to be oblivious yet I don't want to live in fear either.

Sitting on a fence is not a very comfortable, but you get an interesting view.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Conspiracy theories need good criticism, that is why I come here. I take a lot of stock in what the "nay-sayer" has to say. There are good members here that throw down facts in a polite and proffesional manor everytime the same old question comes up over and over.

The facts need to be laid down throughout a thread as a baseline to keep any theory in the bounds of what is possible. When the poster that is laying the facts down is doing it in a belittling and condescending tone, it changes the whole environment of the discussion. I am guilty of it myself, I know what I am talking about



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Great OP. You are esteemed, in my estimation! I'm a 'believer' when it comes to chemtrails, but I tend to avoid the forum here precisely because of the aggressive nonsense that passes for intellectually honest skepticism. Hope this rallying call serves to re-engage people in what it means to be a civilised human being having a debate - instead of what we tend to experience; a herd of trolls shooting people down the minute they profess a non-mainstream opinion..




posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: Observationalist




The debunkers however did not convince me to move to their side as they too seem to play on the emotions with their arogance and dismissive attitude


We aren't dismissive because we think we know...we are dismissive because there is no evidence they exist.

Trust me when I say this...

If anyone can show that scientifically they exist and can provide actual testing of one...that would stop debunkers from being dismissive.

It really is that easy.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

If debunkers are tired of attempting to debunk every chemtrail thread, then don't bother. They should save their effort for another thread subject and be content to bask in the glow of knowing it all.

But THAT'LL never happen. The dogpile will live on.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

Oh Jubila and Jubilo, I am more guilty than you both. I have been a "debunker" of chemtrails for a while now.


I have been waiting years for someone to get a Masonic reference into a Chemtrail thread.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment




instead of what we tend to experience;a herd of trolls shooting people down the minute they profess a non-mainstream opinion..


And you wonder why some debunkers act as they do?

You see civility works both ways.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: NewzNose




If debunkers are tired of attempting to debunk every chemtrail thread, then don't bother.


It's called Denying Ignorance...that is what we as debunkers try to do when it comes to chemtrails.



They should save their effort for another thread subject and be content to bask in the glow of knowing it all.


Why because you would rather see everyone agreeing that chemtrails exist, because hearing the truth bothers you...good to know.



The dogpile will live on.


SO debunking is a dogpile...gotcha.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 06:12 PM
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Chemtrails are not used for geoengineering , IMO , And yes I think they are real , but has multiple uses..



edit on 0b40America/ChicagoSun, 12 Jun 2016 18:13:40 -0500vAmerica/ChicagoSun, 12 Jun 2016 18:13:40 -05001 by 0bserver1 because: (no reason given)




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