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Orlando Nightclub Massacre

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posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:21 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

This really isn't about Islam or Muslims ... it's about ISIS, which is about as far out into left field from Islam as you can get.

Devout Muslims don't engage in violence during Ramadan:



Caner K. Dagli, the religious studies professor who wrote the piece, rightly asserts that most Muslims attempt to cultivate a sense of inner peace and practice spiritual reflection during their daylight abstention from food, water, and sex.

“For most Muslims around the world, the month of Ramadan marks a yearly renewal, a time to turn inward in spiritual reflection, upward to God in worship, and outward toward other human beings in acts of charity,” Dagli writes.

While there isn’t an outright prohibition on aggression during Ramadan, at least in the military sense, there are repeated calls for Muslims to maintain an air of calm whilst fasting. Dagli makes note of this when he cites a Prophetic decree to avoid raising one’s voice or returning insults, and instead to respond to personal attacks by saying, “I am fasting. I am fasting.”

Although Islam does not formally prohibit the fighting during the holy month. It does, however, clearly prohibit many of the barbarities militant groups like ISIS perpetuate — and attempt to pass off as religiously acceptable.

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This guy wanted to claim he supported ISIS? Fine.

ISIS isn't Islam.

Just as The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) aren't Chrisitans:



The mainstream media have had much to say about the Islamist brutality of Boko Haram, but one terrorist group they haven’t paid nearly as much attention to is the Lord’s Resistance Army—which was founded by Joseph Kony (a radical Christianist) in Uganda in 1987 and has called for the establishment of a severe Christian fundamentalist government in that country. The LRA, according to Human Rights Watch, has committed thousands of killings and kidnappings—and along the way, its terrorism spread from Uganda to parts of the Congo, the Central African Republic (CAR) and South Sudan.

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People who follow or support these radical groups are not representatives of their faith. An ISIS or LRA member is not a Muslim or a Christian, they defy the very values of their own religious faiths.

So while we hear the blame being shifted around, remember that -- there are extremists and radicals who use religion as a weapon to poison minds and push agendas. These people should be thoroughly renounced by all religious organizations.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 13-6-2016 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:23 AM
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Hm.. interesting video but not really likely.. it's probably more that people ran down the street and then made their way back because all the first responders where in that area.

Another "incident" - another time where the country is divide - another time a president can't tell the truth or use the words to describe reality - another time when Politician use it for their own purpose ..

another - another - another - another....

The media has a frenzy fest going on right now.

It's almost 11:30p and I am tired ...



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:24 AM
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I know every one is playing its mortal role but



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:24 AM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes


- I was just hearing that the shooter blocked the club door, and that might be one reason for the high numbers of victims.


How naïve. the high number of victims was because the shooter had a gun that used MAGAZINES.

I don't know much about guns -- admittedly - and I don't need to or want to. But I do know American society has no reason to permit such guns except for LE, and maybe some other circumstances I'm unaware of.

These guns are designed for mass killings, and any idiot can buy one. If he had had to reload every six bullets or so, someone could have taken him down.



Not naive at all. I am pretty familiar with guns. There is no reason to limit a magazine to only law enforcement. Considering how often we hear of unjustified shootings, in fact, that seems to be a singularly bad idea. And, yes, blocking a door in a crowded club, and preventing people from leaving, is going to increase casualties. That's a no-brainer. Nowhere to run means someone is more vulnerable. Most clubs I have seen, there aren't a lot of places to hide. This guy took advantage of that, and could have done the same with any number of other methods of attack. Guns aren't the issue here. This guy was a terrorist. He could have used gas, or explosives, or any number of other methods.

As for the magazines, the store owners defending their businesses during the LA riots saw a need for those. Nice work on their part, too.

In this case, we have a nightclub, which is a no-gun zone, and a lot of people no doubt drinking and very distracted, and a large crowd, close to closing. Reloading doesn't take long at all, magazine or no magazine. Yeah, he could have done this anyway. Someone willing to do what he did will find a way. Banning this or that won't make a difference. This was, remember, a gun-free zone, yet he came in with guns. Bans only affect those with a respect for the law, not criminals or terrorists.

For the thread in general, wow.......lot of distractions and misdirection, and outright nastiness being posted! Fifty people, at least, died, and at least fifty-three more were injured, who knows how badly. I don't care what those people believed, or what behaviors they might have had, I care that they were Americans, and were killed in a terrorist attack on our soil. THAT is what matters. That should be all that matters. Let the talking heads and politicians play games, people; we at ATS can do better than that.

I can't get over the reports of phones ringing and ringing inside. I first heard, due to a relatives error, that this was in another place, where I have family, and the worry was very real till I knew they were alright!! For some, their loved ones aren't alright. For some, there is no relief.

This man claimed allegiance to ISIS, ISIS claimed him, the FBI calls it ISIS-related, ISIS stated they planned to attack in Florida, a Muslim speaker called for violence against the targeted group - yeah, safe to call this terrorism, and likely not just domestic. Even if so, it's all the same, in the end. People with no respect for the freedom of others taking action and killing, again. That has to be addressed.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:30 AM
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originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527


I know every one is playing its mortal role but


I think they said in Modern history... not sure what that means though...



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:30 AM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Meh, you know what I don't care how he got one of those BIG FREAKIN KILLER GUNS. He got one, and he shouldn't have.
Those things should not be available PERIOD. Those things are for war, and mass murders, and this very incident we see now is the CASE IN POINT.



A gun is a tool. What killed those people was a terrorist. Tools can be used in any number of fashions. This man was a terrorist, and that's the issue here.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:35 AM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
So while we hear the blame being shifted around, remember that -- there are extremists and radicals who use religion as a weapon to poison minds and push agendas. These people should be thoroughly renounced by all religious organizations.


I agree, but what do you do with lets say a few million radical muslin that are in the world today? As to renounced...well that is a sticky wicket to say the least. The problem is you also have a large percentage that are not violent but support these extremest views to some degree.

I would bet that in the Middle East there are more people who see it as a just thing, to kill gays in this case. This Middle East is a very violent place and a little "Gods Work" can't be all bad...right?
edit on 13-6-2016 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527


I know every one is playing its mortal role but



Hate to break this to you, but there is a significant difference between a race riot and a single shooting event.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:47 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Excellent point MM !

The weak and gullible are seduced by this...

Sad but a startung point for all historic despots.

However we do not have an individual taking responsibility in this case ...

Who do we go after ?

Hitler was a no brainer. This is far worse.

We need a snake or even a hydra to cut heads off ...

This is insipidly different.
edit on 13-6-2016 by Timely because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:48 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

you secularize them. make them moderates like the non violent muslims, jews, christians, smart ppl. christianity has has the luxury of secularism because its westen culture. one of two things will happen, the non violent side of islam will become the norm like modern religions, or the violent side will win. i dont care if muslims choose to cherry pick their scriptures, or interpret it however they like, as long as islam moves towards peace, like most Muslims in the west today.

considering that christianity wasnt moved into banality overnight, im sure islam will have to go through its own reform, moderation of islam is our best bet as trying to deconvert them into atheism is possibly the hardest thing you can do anyone of faith. so i no longer care about atheist rhetoric, more about finding peaceful common ground.
edit on 13-6-2016 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:50 AM
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To all non-Americans in this thread:

Save your breath, mass shootings are an accepted fact of life in the US.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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originally posted by: Annee
NO.

A poster was complaining about Obama talking about gun control.

I basically said, he's everyone's president. Not just gun supporters. He needs to address both.


So, for all who are stating, correctly, that this was Islamic terrorism, where is the representation for their point of view? Didn't hear any of that from him. What did he state he planned to do about ISIS? Nothing!

No, he needs to address the facts, instead of pushing an agenda. And yes, you were out of line. People lost loved ones, an you want to push an agenda.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527


I know every one is playing its mortal role but



Hate to break this to you, but there is a significant difference between a race riot and a single shooting event.


Terrorism is classified as fourth-generation warfare and as a violent crime. In its broadest sense, is defined as the use of violence, or threatened use of violence, in order to achieve a political, religious, or ideological aim. In modern times, terrorism is considered a major threat to society and therefore illegal under anti-terrorism laws in most jurisdictions. It is also considered a war crime under the laws of war when used to target non-combatants, such as civilians, neutral military personnel, or enemy prisoners of war.[1]

A broad array of political organizations have practiced terrorism to further their objectives. It has been practiced by both right-wing and sometimes left-wing political parties, nationalist groups, religious groups, revolutionaries, and ruling governments.[2] The symbolism of terrorism can exploit human fear to help achieve these goals.[3]




edit on 13-6-2016 by ImmortalLegend527 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:02 AM
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originally posted by: Leonidas
To all non-Americans in this thread:

Save your breath, mass shootings are an accepted fact of life in the US.


We know its pointless to comment and that Americans will only accept an American solution



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:02 AM
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a reply to: SpecialSauce

Please stop trolling me, SpecialSauce.
edit on 6/13/2016 by ColdWisdom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:11 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:19 AM
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originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: SpecialSauce

Please stop trolling me, SpecialSauce.


Again.

I really hope that now is not the time for this.

There are a myriad of dead.

With people of all persuasions grieving and trying to come to terms with this.

As are we all.

Let's leave our preconceptions and biases at the door.

This is an emotional time and a huge watershed moment ... being the worst shooting massacre in the history of the USA.

Let's use our energy to think of ways ... realistic ways, to prevent a next one ...

We are ATS ... yes we bicker.

But we are one ...

Focus !

edit on 13-6-2016 by Timely because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:23 AM
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originally posted by: allnewsht
*SNIP*


Why do you believe that ?

I am not about to click on anything with that URL ...

😐
edit on 13-6-2016 by Timely because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/13/2016 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: Removed quote of a removed post.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:32 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527


I know every one is playing its mortal role but


I think they said in Modern history... not sure what that means though...


Don't forget to add the Mountain Meadows Massacre, although that one is from the 1800's. It's where a group of Mormons murdered a wagon train of 120 people, mostly emigrants, and tried to cover it over, mostly to steal the cattle and goods of the people, but also for other reasons.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 02:43 AM
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a reply to: ColdWisdom

My family and friends turned out to be safe but are very shaken that this happened so close to home(one is LGBT as well).

Sending regards to you and yours.
Stay strong as well.




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