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Orlando Nightclub Massacre

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posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:54 PM
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For those who are interested names are being released: Orlando Shooting Victims List




posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:56 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

If a few of the Christians I have on my Facebook are to be believed, they too would gladly kill LGBT people. The fact that they don't doesn't make their hate mean less.

I think because Christian nations have stronger legal systems that don't allow vigilante-style justice in the name of religion has tempered and turned these zealots into armchair activists.

I'm sure that if a Christian theocracy was established, the stoning and violence against LGBT people would be more widely accepted.

It is precisely because of our separation of church and state that we don't have religious radicals leading our government and legal system. If we didn't have that, I have a feeling legal consequences for harming minorities would be very lax. Precedents would be set, and a culture of violence against those shunned by the Christians would increase.

This is yet another reason why religion and government MUST be separate. In Islamic theocracies these types violent atrocities aren't prosecuted or condemned.

I can only imagine if a Christian theocracy was allowed to flourish what kind of living hell LGBT people would have to endure.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: neformore

You obviously had not followed my activity in the political forum. I was pointing out all the crimes that the west has done in the past. Those people should be held accountable.

But, they didn't do it in the name of Jesus.

Hell, I even experienced the western crimes on my own skin, when i lost two of my family members, during the illegal nato bombing of my country. But, you don't see me hating every single western citizen and going on a muss murder rampage, screaming the name of the Jesus. No, because Christianity teaches to forgive. Which I had done.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Cool story but what does it have to do with this situation?



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: neformore

These are stats from 2001 - 2010... Well before ISIS has taken global root. I'm trying to get more updated stats, but these still reflect a general reality. Yes, there are other religions who are violent, but not to the extend that Islam has produced....



ETA - these stats are complied from the Global Terrorism database

www.start.umd.edu...
edit on 12-6-2016 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom




I can only imagine if a Christian theocracy was allowed to flourish what kind of living hell LGBT people would have to endure.


IF the way rich people,bankers,ceo's,corporations, and gun owners are any indication in 'enlightened' America. Basically anyone not in the secular protected classes.

Not to well.

But hey that really doesn't matter.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

If a few of the Christians I have on my Facebook are to be believed, they too would gladly kill LGBT people. The fact that they don't doesn't make their hate mean less.

I think because Christian nations have stronger legal systems that don't allow vigilante-style justice in the name of religion has tempered and turned these zealots into armchair activists.

I'm sure that if a Christian theocracy was established, the stoning and violence against LGBT people would be more widely accepted.

It is precisely because of our separation of church and state that we don't have religious radicals leading our government and legal system. If we didn't have that, I have a feeling legal consequences for harming minorities would be very lax. Precedents would be set, and a culture of violence against those shunned by the Christians would increase.

This is yet another reason why religion and government MUST be separate. In Islamic theocracies these types violent atrocities aren't prosecuted or condemned.

I can only imagine if a Christian theocracy was allowed to flourish what kind of living hell LGBT people would have to endure.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


In Africa there are several Christian terrorist groups that routinely kill gays and witches. Uganda comes to mind.

We don't hear about it tho cause it's Africa, and they are Christian.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

Are you really taking this down the road of which caliber of bullet is better to be shot with?

Really?

I'm in favor of getting rid of IS. Fully and completely. I'm not in favor of dropping the bomb on a few cities to do it, and literally nothing you've said has moved me one inch from that position.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

People just need to randomly bash on Christianity whenever possible.

As I've already said, all your guys arguments about Christianity might have had been valid, 800 years ago. Not now. And not in this particular situation.

Let's deal with ISIS and let's hope the US government learns once and for all, not to try and use terrorists, because it will backfire. Like some of us were warning would happen a couple of years back.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

It's cool to speculate what would happen IF, but we have the now, the real, the evidence.

And the evidence....scratch that....the PROOF...shows us that Islam killed more gays in ONE HOUR...than the last 50 years combined from any Christian Extremists.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: Liquesence
Perspective:


My, my, just LOOK at all those blues on the map. That's a whole bunch of un-American products-of-immigration-at-some-point-in-their-lineage there, ain't it? Kick 'em all out! Damn immigrants! Oh, wait.

I'm far more concerned with those in the blue circles than the red 3. Just eyeball that data for one calendar year. It's pretty fricking obvious that the non-Muslims are a bigger threat to us than anyone else. Considering this country is predominantly Christian, it's not a stretch to go a step further and categorize Christians in general as major safety threats to ourselves. I'm not saying no Athiests ever went postal, if someone wants to dig up data & make a nice affiliation graph, knock yourself out (it would surely be informative, especially if divvied by sect type) but come on, let's be realistic. Percentage-wise, we're fearing the wrong people around us. Fools are as fools do.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:09 PM
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a reply to: Nyiah

Now do a more detailed map showing us the race, ethnicity, and gang affiliations... of those blue markers on that map you provided.

Dare ya



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:09 PM
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a reply to: Nyiah

Are all those blue caused by Christians or by Americans?



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

There has not been a positive theocracy in the history of this planet,not even a Buddhist one,a true Christian supposedly hates the sin but must love the individual,whilst I concede there is immoral and amoral behaviour and often a balance of consequences for such behaviours I have difficulty with the concept of sin.Anything that allows the evils of this world I feel is in no position to judge.Regardless of these peoples proclivities they had a right to life and it was a Muslim not a Christian hater that took them .



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:11 PM
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How is this thread becoming a examination of Christianity?

I'm not even a Christian and it's weird.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
How is this thread becoming a examination of Christianity?

I'm not even a Christian and it's weird.




It's part of their agenda.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
How is this thread becoming a examination of Christianity?

I'm not even a Christian and it's weird.



Because some people don't want to talk about the Orlando shooting.

They are throwing everything including the kitchen sink NOT to talk about it.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: thesaneone

People just need to randomly bash on Christianity whenever possible.

As I've already said, all your guys arguments about Christianity might have had been valid, 800 years ago. Not now. And not in this particular situation.

Let's deal with ISIS and let's hope the US government learns once and for all, not to try and use terrorists, because it will backfire. Like some of us were warning would happen a couple of years back.


I like when the apologists start bringing up 'ya, but extremist Christians have shot abortion doctors'. An Islamic extremist killed more people in one day than murdered abortion doctors were ever killed by Christian extremists in the past fifty years.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
How is this thread becoming a examination of Christianity?

I'm not even a Christian and it's weird.



Maybe because we're more likely to apologize for ourselves and more vulnerable to such things than Muslims currently are.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: SprocketUK

Are you really taking this down the road of which caliber of bullet is better to be shot with?

Really?

I'm in favor of getting rid of IS. Fully and completely. I'm not in favor of dropping the bomb on a few cities to do it, and literally nothing you've said has moved me one inch from that position.


Merely an observation on the nature of modern war and applications of terror.

You know as well as I do that it's not all laser guided hushabooms delivered through letter boxes to punish the wicked.

There's nothing really clean and nice about war is there?


ETA I don't intend to try and turn you to my point of view. This is a discussion, and I've been married too long to believe I'm always right (or even sometimes
)
How would you go about sorting this mess out? Your idea may well be better than mine and I'm open to hearing it without any prejudice whatsoever.
edit on 16pSun, 12 Jun 2016 16:25:16 -050020162016-06-12T16:25:16-05:00kAmerica/Chicago30000000k by SprocketUK because: (no reason given)




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