Trump's Wealth Built on Stiffing Scores of Contractors, Businesses and Employees

a reply to: DanteGaland

I just hope he could bankrupt China and Mexico who have been ripping off the US for years!

originally posted by: onequestion

Having had a lot of experience with this subcontracting I can tell you this is a regular occurrence and I am 200% positive Trump had nothing to do with it.

Are you saying it is always the sub-contractors who are the bad guys...I don't think so?

Over the years, he has done settlements, he has had settlements to him, he has done settlements with prejudice?? the STFU kind.
He has lawsuits against him for pretty much scamming in the area of the Defunct Trump University, if any one of those succeeds, it would likely be curtains....maybe, not much.
Further, why should he procure a couple of loans worth over a $100 million from Germany’s Deutsche Bank for a piggin' hotel? Deutsche Bank, I might add is not without controversy after interest rigging scandals, and paid America a $billion or two in fines? ...a slap in the wrist, the same as HSBC got for money laundering, and add to that it's no secret that Donald is quite cosy with US government anyway, his dealings in mafia controlled, nepotismo Azerbaijan are testament to that.
I don't think people grasp what is going on, maybe it's too much to think about.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Is it a crime to have an opinion?

I find Trump to much. I have a happy life with my partner and find these unreported stories deserving of sharing.

Of course its not a crime and not only are you entitled to your opinion I would most likely respect it.

What I dont respect is people coming here to push agendas.
Mate i teach sales methods and tactics to sales companies and real estate agencies and can see when Im being sold from a mile away.

Your just the latest in a never ending string of people who come here to promote books, websites, youtube channels etc etc obviously due to the time of the year now its politics.

Being honest youre one of the better ones Ive seen on here so well done to you but its still obvious what your about.

Ill tell you what just to prove its the fact your a shill and not what youre shilling about that bothers me ill call out a pro Trump shill when I see one next, the reason theyre harder to find is theres less of them and they just dont have as much interesting stuff to say.
I find the whole email thing a bit dull and rarely click on those threads.

Once again, Im not American and other than entertainment value I dont care about the election, nothings gonna change no matter who wins.
I do care about people using this site as a platform for propaganda

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011
a reply to: DanteGaland

I just hope he could bankrupt China and Mexico who have been ripping off the US for years!

If he doesn't bankrupt us first...

We shall see, won't we?

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I think Mr. Trump is the subject, not me.

I know if I didn't pay my subcontractors, I'd get a reputation and find it harder and harder to hire people.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I'm a bit miffed by this community for taking such a paranoid role.

Mate its a conspiracy website, paranoia is basically a requirement for membership

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

TRUE. I understand...I've been in Trumpland since the California primaries. Perhaps I need more coffee.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: onequestion

Having had a lot of experience with this subcontracting I can tell you this is a regular occurrence and I am 200% positive Trump had nothing to do with it.

Are you saying it is always the sub-contractors who are the bad guys...I don't think so?

Over the years, he has done settlements, he has had settlements to him, he has done settlements with prejudice?? the STFU kind.
He has lawsuits against him for pretty much scamming in the area of the Defunct Trump University, if any one of those succeeds, it would likely be curtains....maybe, not much.
Further, why should he procure a couple of loans worth over a $100 million from Germany’s Deutsche Bank for a piggin' hotel? Deutsche Bank, I might add is not without controversy after interest rigging scandals, and paid America a $billion or two in fines? ...a slap in the wrist, the same as HSBC got for money laundering, and add to that it's no secret that Donald is quite cosy with US government anyway, his dealings in mafia controlled, nepotismo Azerbaijan are testament to that.
I don't think people grasp what is going on, maybe it's too much to think about.

So what experience do YOU have with subcontractors?

Anyway, Hillary as secstate brokered a deal with the swiss, when they had 60,000 accounts that were supposed to be reported for taxes and she got them down to 4,500.

Remember that?

And how does a public servant make $150 mil starting from $500,000.00 in the hole in the year 2000?

Why did the foundation have to redo it's tax returns a couple times? 1100 donations not accounted for.

Trump is in legit biz and there are laws for that and he abides.

It doesn't seem like there are any laws that the hillary abides by.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I think Mr. Trump is the subject, not me.

I know if I didn't pay my subcontractors, I'd get a reputation and find it harder and harder to hire people.

Sadly we cant make threads about other members so I have to post my thoughts on your motives here.

On topic yeah trumps a crook, show me a multi millionaire that isnt?
So are you pro Hillary or just anti Trump?

What I find really telling in this election is that almost 100% of the shilling is about demonising the other side.
Its like neither side really has anything good to say about their own candidate

Double post dammit.

Quick someone say something interesting so I can edit a reply in here


It used to be my cat but an ex got him and his brother in the breakup.

His name was Snowy and he wad a Trump supporter who would have ripped into the OP quite harshly.
His brother Ginger on the other hand was very much into the Hildawg and they would spend hours rolling around fighting over who was better

a reply to: Slickinfinity

Slickinfinity: I know you are in the business so forgive some of the following language as some of it is for the benefit of those not in the industry.

======================

I've been working for a CM for the past few years but spent many, many years working for GC's. Let me point out they have all been "legit" GC's so I have never screwed ANY sub out of a dime.

When it comes to subcontractors (drywall or others) and getting paid on time, there are a few things that immediately pop into my mind...

Subcontractor Late Payments
I've dealt with SO MANY subcontractors that are absolute masters of their trade. The finished product comes out fantastic. The problem with too many is that they pay no attention to the paperwork back in their office. Most legit contractors follow the AIA payment requisition format, which requires certain paperwork (some of it notarized). I can not tell you how many times I've had to chase down subcontractors BEGGING them to provide what I need to pay them (which, by the way, is not in my job description).

Change Order/Additional Work Payments
The same goes for change order work. If additional work is going to be paid under T&M tickets (Time and Material, for those not in the construction industry), the subcontractor NEEDS to hold on to those invoices and daily logs/sign-in sheets. Most projects that are run by a GC are "owned" by someone else whom at some point, needs to approve additional costs. Most "legit" owners can't be expected to approve additional costs when there is ZERO back-up to justify the costs/invoices.

Subcontractors "claiming" that they aren't paid in full
For those who may not know, there are a few reason that a subcontractor will not be paid the full amount of their contract. From my personal experience, the main reasons are:

1) They did not complete their work on time. If they delayed the job, which in turn causes damages to the GC or owner, they will be (and frankly should be) back charged for the delay.

2) If, while completing their work, the subcontractor causes damage to other completed work, they will be (and should be) back charged to cover the costs to repair the other work they damaged.

3) At times (in my experience not often but it does happen) the subcontractor's work is shoddy and another subcontractor is called in to repair the work of the original subcontractor.

I wrote all this, in part, because the recent USA Today article that spawned all this and the members of this site that are running with it clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

It is true that if the election were held today, I would vote for Trump. That being said, I find it irresponsible (and quite frankly, obnoxious) when people that no nothing about an industry start interjecting as if they know their rear-end from their elbow about the subject matter.

On the political end.... a few days ago there was a thread about that book being published that was written by a former secret service agent that I stated.... in my opinion, should NOT have been written.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Double post dammit.

Quick someone say something interesting so I can edit a reply in here

Is your Avatar YOUR cat?

a reply to: eluryh22

Much appreciated.

As a flooring installer I know what it's like fighting with companies to get paid.

It's like almost every big commercial job done for the big construction companies.

Right now we're working for a major commercial developer and they are spot on with their payments but we work specifically with the company so it's a better deal.

a reply to: smurfy

It's not cut and dry and a suit is actually a common occurrence you'd be surorised.

Bad GCs running behind schedule will due everything he can to blame the sub.

Trump isn't GCing these jobs blaming him for it stupid. Stupid as in totally ignorant having no idea how the industry works.

I don't know about all the other complaints filed against Trump, but I do know that sub contractor negligence leads to a lot of unnecessary claims being filed. I can name three recent claims filed against our company just on projects I have run in recent years, all due to the subcontractors not doing their homework and bidding improperly. All three were dismissed.

First, we always email a copy of the plans to all bidding subcontractors. Expressly noted in the email is the fact that all subcontractors should feel free to inspect conditions before bidding. This should always be done on TIs ( Tennant improvement). All subcontractors do not do this. Many just sit their keesters in their offices and bid on the plans. We, as the general, are just looking for low bid.

One example was a demo contractor. There was about 600sq ft of laminate flooring to pull up as part of the scope of demolition. Underneath that laminate flooring happened to be 6000 ft of saltillo tile. The demo contractor never visited the site to verify conditions before bidding. After everything else was demoed and cleaned up they started pulling up the laminate. Lo and behold they see the saltillo tile. 6000 sq ft of saltillo tile is a real pain in the keester to get up. The demo contractor got it done in 4 days... Everything ok. He was done.

A couple of weeks later I'm sitting in my office and our secretary brings in paperwork for me. There is a request for me to sign of on about $10,000 of additional work by the demo guy. I mail him back and explain that his contract was to complete demolition per plans and the plans call for a bare concrete floor. He gets angry and started saying that he didn't know about the saltillo tile under the laminate. I say because he never visited the site. He gets angry. I tell him to call my bosd, I can't authorize that payment. He calls my boss and is told the same thing. Long story short, he files against us and loses. He probably was out of several thousand dollars. But that's his fault. Stuff like that happens every day in the construction industry. I won't blame Trump for that

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: eluryh22

Much appreciated.

As a flooring installer I know what it's like fighting with companies to get paid.

It's like almost every big commercial job done for the big construction companies.

Right now we're working for a major commercial developer and they are spot on with their payments but we work specifically with the company so it's a better deal.

Since you regularly work with the same developer, I can only assume that you are a "legit" subcontractor.

That's what people who try to run with this article don't understand. Any "legit" developer or GC understands that you don't "get rich" on one project by screwing some people over.

To put it another way, at every single pre-construction meeting I host (and at the first few progress meetings when the subcontractors are present) I say this...

"I'm not going to reach into your pockets and you're not going to reach into my pocket. We're all going to do the right job for the right price, we're all going to make some money... and hopefully we'll all do it again the next time."

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: smurfy

It's not cut and dry and a suit is actually a common occurrence you'd be surorised.

Bad GCs running behind schedule will due everything he can to blame the sub.

Trump isn't GCing these jobs blaming him for it stupid. Stupid as in totally ignorant having no idea how the industry works.

You're right that "Bad GC's" do all sorts of awful things. That's why those "Bad GCs" usually aren't around for very long.

It's also why when owners of subcontractors that I've dealt with ask me about a "new contractor" on the block, I advise them to do their homework prior to entering into contract.

As it pertains to this thread, there is zero evidence that Trump, as a developer, is a shady, fly-by-night firm. Based on the number of years in business and the amount of repeat GCs and by extension, subcontractors that continue to work for his firm, it would appear the exact opposite is the case.

a reply to: eluryh22

That's what people who try to run with this article don't understand. Any "legit" developer or GC understands that you don't "get rich" on one project by screwing some people over.

Oh it's hilarious. I remember we had a problem getting 70,000 from HHUUGGEE job we did.

You know how many jobs Trump would have to screw up to get that total to 9 billion?

Hahahaha. More laughable thread topics.

Yeah we do a good job but we're in an area that's not really rich with construction. I'm changing trades but Dad's company is lining up about six months worth of work. Mostly smaller commercial jobs. Probably between 5-15,000 sq ft per job. Industrial warehousing mostly carpet and VCT. Easy work small crews.

a reply to: eluryh22

He didn't build a 9 billion dollar empire screwing subcontractors out of work let's get real.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

I just hope he could bankrupt China and Mexico who have been ripping off the US for years!

Surely you know how importing finished products or "local home grown" works by now?
China & Mexico manufacturer for the likes of Walmart and Apple - the larger profits are made by the US Corps. US Factories are shut down, employement is shifted overseas due to cheaper labour costs and lax regulation. Your US corporations are registered in low tax countries like Ireland - Very little wealth is given back to the US tax system.

Without China buying US debt your country would have been bankrupted long ago - do some critical thinking