It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia launches passenger plane to take on Airbus, Boeing

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 09:02 AM
link   
Russia has unveiled its latest plane in a bid to take on Airbus and Boeing. Looks like it's fairly modern and up to western standards.By combining all their airline manufacturers under the Irkut banner Russia is beginning to see the fruits in aircraft like this. With its immence natural resources as the world biggest country, plus its advanced engineering backgound in aircraft design and manufacture that gos back to the beginning of the USSR almost 100 years ago Russia should be in a position to catch up with the Americans who have dominated the market for so lond and the new jids on the block the Europan Union manufacturer Airbus. The question at the back of the mind is always................ Will anybody actually want this jet in big numbers? Maybe by losing ground since the end of the USSR the time for Russia to mass produce passenger jets is too far gone, too many countries having sanctions against Russia, to much distrust by foreign aircraft operators that would likely be targets for Irkut. Then again maybe Putin can place massive import taxes on all foreign passenger planes and sort of force Russian operators to buy this new plane, while hoping aligned ex Soviet states will buy it along with Cuba, Vietnam etc. Time will tell, but what a beautiful plane along with a fantastic glitzy opening ceremony. Video here www.theguardian.com...




posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 09:11 AM
link   
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

With their history of production and maintenance problems this is going to be a hard sell. The Sukhoi Superjet was supposed to take on the E-Jet family and CSeries and has pretty much been a failure. They only have a couple of Western customers, and one of the Russian operators just lost their operating authority for them.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 09:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

It probably is going to go the way of the Superjet. It's amazing in some ways after decades of lack of serious sales the Russian manufacturer keeps on giving it a go. The only real hope is if Moscow puts massive import taxes on imported planes from the USA and EU, then a guaranteed market is opened. I think I was reading (but not sure where) the other day that China and Russia are going to go into full partnership on taking on Airbus and Boeing. That would probably be the way to go for Irkut, or maybe a partnership with India like the Russians do with the military sphere.

Nevertheless it is great to see Russia still trying to keep up with the USA and EU in civilian aircraft manufacture.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 09:50 AM
link   
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
Russia builds war machines very well, but why would any "western" company risk buying one of these with the alternatives that are currently available?



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 10:05 AM
link   
There is also that doing business in Russia is very complicated, not least because of the corruption and political shenanigans. Potential customers just don't trust Russia. Faced with investing your business success in a US or European company, Russia is too much risk.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 10:13 AM
link   
a reply to: Stngray

Honestly, the last few years they haven't even done that well. When the Su-34 entered service, they had huge issues with the way it was built. By 2012, they only had something like 16, and all of them had significant issues. At one point the first two or three were grounded they were so bad. They said that you could pull the same circuit board out of three different aircraft, and it was built three different ways.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 10:22 AM
link   
lol, no thanks.

Anyone ever flown aeroflot? Their maintenance is horrific.

Near Hypothermia mid air was an experience for my friends and I.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 11:02 AM
link   

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
lol, no thanks.

Anyone ever flown aeroflot? Their maintenance is horrific.

Near Hypothermia mid air was an experience for my friends and I.


No but I remember hearing Aeroflot Tu104s being started up making that howling sound Starfighters make when flying.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 12:22 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Mmmmm, not to question the words of the expert, but..........the products of Antonov Design Bureau seem to have a pretty decent record, don't they?

Of course.....Antonov is, if memory serves correctly, actually based in Ukraine, so.....I don't know the extent to which they're working with the Russians.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 12:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Anyone ever flown aeroflot? Their maintenance is horrific.


As someone who flies almost weekly I would not fly on a Russian passenger aircraft if it were free trips to anywhere I wanted.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 01:32 PM
link   
Just because a company can build an excellent military jet, doesn't mean they can build a worthy passenger jet. Even Lockheed, which is arguably the most advanced producer of aircraft in the world, has had limited success in building passenger aircraft. Boeing and Airbus have set the bar incredibly high...



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 01:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

How is the Chinese competitor airliner coming along?



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 01:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Zaphod58

Mmmmm, not to question the words of the expert, but..........the products of Antonov Design Bureau seem to have a pretty decent record, don't they?

Of course.....Antonov is, if memory serves correctly, actually based in Ukraine, so.....I don't know the extent to which they're working with the Russians.


Antonov is owned by the Ukrainian government, so, given the current political climate between Russia and Ukraine, I doubt there is any cooperation going on there. Antonov's last attempt, the An-148, seems to have stalled out and saw very limited production. The An-124 and An-225 are successful as large transport aircraft, but they are hardly airliners.

Air Koryo is flying two of the An-148s... so, that might tell you a little about how in demand that product is.
edit on 11-6-2016 by AtomicMod because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 01:54 PM
link   
a reply to: TonyS

The AN-148/158 only produced 39 aircraft in 10 years. Their military aircraft have been pretty good, but they've never caught on as a commercial aircraft manufacturer.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 01:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: paraphi
There is also that doing business in Russia is very complicated, not least because of the corruption and political shenanigans. Potential customers just don't trust Russia. Faced with investing your business success in a US or European company, Russia is too much risk.


Not to mention that there is a huge issue with the availability of spare parts and the service required to maintain a fleet of airliners when the source of those parts is a business venture that's tied to a nation that many feel is operating outside of international law in so many areas.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 01:58 PM
link   
a reply to: AtomicMod

They're developing the AN-178, which will be both military and civil, but they currently only have 10 on order from a civil customer, with a letter of intent from another.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 02:05 PM
link   
a reply to: anzha

The C919 has 30 orders outside of China, with 20 from GECAS, and 10 from City Airways. They have 387 from Chinese airlines. They hit some delays this year though. First flight won't be until at least the end of the year, with deliveries between 2018 and 2020. The ARJ21 received certification and is about to enter service, but is actually worse outside China. It's only a 78 seater, with a 1200-2000 nm range. it had a 5/20 order from GECAS, 2 from Lao, 2 from Myanma, and 3 from the Republic of Congo.



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 02:43 PM
link   
I am dosappointed that you people turned a positive event into a thread of negativity. It's an amazing plane with many world firsts, innovations and advantages over their western counterparts. I can't help but feel that the 'couch experts' on aviation commenting here couldn't care less about aviation, but rather view it as Russia vs USA, enemy stepping on USA's toes, etc, etc...
edit on 11-6-2016 by Velatropa24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 03:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Velatropa24

And you would be so wrong it's not even funny. Russia makes many great aircraft, and their fighters are almost works of art at times. The simple fact is that no one competing against Airbus and Boeing is having an easy time. Until the Delta order, Bombardier, who already had a great reputation with the Western market, couldn't sell the CSeries to save their life. They still haven't reached the point that they're breaking even yet. They need 800 sales to break even, and are at 537 if every customer takes every aircraft and option they have on the books. Embraer, another manufacturer that has had success in the Western market, still has trouble selling some of their aircraft.

It's great that Russia managed to build this, and it is a nice aircraft, but the reality is that they're not going to have an easy time, or much success breaking into the Western market. The SuperJet was a nice aircraft, and had some pretty good technology in it, and it has, to date, failed. Saying nice things about either the MC-21 or the SuperJet isn't going to change that. Saying nice things about their aircraft isn't going to change the fact that they have had production problems in recent years.
edit on 6/11/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 08:36 PM
link   
As of September of last year, there were 183 firm orders for the MC-21 all but 15 for the -300 series aircraft, with 138 options. Of those, 50 options are for Crecom Burj Resources of Malaysia, 6 firm/4 options are for Cairo Aviation out of Egypt, and all the rest were for Russian owned companies or airlines.



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join