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Jesus words on Faith, Salvation and the Kingdom of God

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posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:07 PM
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Matthew 6:30: "-you of little faith?
Matthew 8:10 "in no one in Israel have I found such faith."
Matthew 8:13"Go; let it be done according to your faith." (Roman Centurion).
Matthew 8:26
Matthew 9:2 Jesus forgives a paralytic's sins because he had faith, heals him.
Matthew 9:2 "your faith has made you well."
Matthew 9:29 "According to your faith let it be done to you." Heals blind men.
Matthew 14:31
Matthew 15:28 "Woman, great is your faith! Heals woman's daughter.
Matthew 16:8
Matthew 17:20"...faith the size of mustard seed...". Faith moves mountains.
Matthew 21:21
Matthew 21:22 Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive.
Matthew 23:23"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.

OK, you are probably wondering why I am quoting practically every time Jesus says faith in Matthew. I got tired and decided not to do the other 3 Gospels.

And I want to make a point. Jesus is very fond of faith, rewards it even. But it is far from the be all end all justification/salvation "kingdom of grace" rewarding with factor that the epistles of Saul/Paul says it is.

One Gospel alone uses the word grace. John says: "full of grace and truth" describing the Word among us, "grace upon grace" received from his fullness, and "grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

It is not the same concept Paul uses it as. To Paul it is all that matters after he is done rambling on and on about who he hates and how great he is, even though he is nothing.

Jesus never says grace, salvation or justification.

Kingdom of God

Matthew 6:33 "But strive for the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

Striving for the Righteousness and God's Kingdom is work, a work, or a work of Torah/Law any way you want to say it.
Matthew 12:28
19:24
21:31
21:43 "... the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a people that produces the fruits of the Kingdom."

My point:. There is no"kingdom of grace" because it was not taught of or about by the Christ. He came only to show you the Way to the Kingdom of God.

We are all potential little Christ's and he has 4 Gospels plus Revelation all clearly indicating that we are to do everything Jesus says and be exactly how he was and die to this world, so you may be born again and of the Spirit and that is the key.

The Spirit, the Holy Spirit is what you need to see the Kingdom of God/heaven.

I will leave it at that. I don't want to insult anyone about grace.

I just want to ask, does it mean we don't need to actually listen to, learn and follow the teachings of God because:


Some dude said so. He had a "revelation" of "the true gospel" and it is "faith ALONE that justifies"

The Kingdom of God sounds worth it. I don't want or need justification or grace if I have the Holy Spirit and the Kingdom of God is within me.

I am not going to learn anything from Paul that Jesus didn't teach or that is necessary. How is a murderer going to improve upon the Wisdom of the Son of God?


"Believe, and be baptized"

Believing/faith is literally just the first step in the true teachings of Christ.

You need to repent, be born of water, Spirit and fire. Then you will see the Kingdom of God.

edit on 10-6-2016 by LenatasataneL because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:09 PM
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cool bible quotes man!



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: Quartzlife
cool bible quotes man!


Oh, no problem at all, it was fun and I learned a few things in the process.



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: LenatasataneL

For God so loved the world that He gave His only beggton Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have ever lasting life Jn.3:16 God gives .We believe ,and get eternal life in Jesus Christ ....not of works but by faith are we saved which is salvation .....peace



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: LenatasataneL

For God so loved the world that He gave His only beggton Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have ever lasting life Jn.3:16 God gives .We believe ,and get eternal life in Jesus Christ ....not of works but by faith are we saved which is salvation .....peace


Well, not according to Jesus and literally everything he taught us but if that's your choice OK.

You don't perish when you believe because if you believe you will do what Christ said and not subvert one sentence to popular opinion by misinterpreting believe in him.

Believe, and be baptized. If you believe then you know that is the first step and not the last.

If you don't do what Jesus says to do you probably don't really believe.

How you gonna not listen to the teachings of God because of... ANY DAMN THING?

You think you should not try and be righteous like Christ and model your life on his?

If so, that is called missing the mark aka sin. Sloth, among others. Beliefs are thoughts and anyone can just believe.

Literally, anyone. One thought, and your saved?

Snake oil. That is what Paul sold.
edit on 10-6-2016 by LenatasataneL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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I agree with much in your post since I think Paul was a miss direction from Christ (anointment)

Faith in that she/he can be healed and letting the healing happen is not the same as having faith in Paul doctrines.

The placebo effect pushes the idea that the higher level of awareness that self healing will occur the higher probability that it happens. And then we have people who can use their own bodies and control the energy flow enough to calm other people down and even energize the part that is needed healing resulting in heat/cold/vibration feeling in the body. Even if it is only a drop it is still something.



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

Exactly. Jesus taught the most morally correct path to Wisdom, that is, the Holy Spirit.

He taught about the third eye
7 is mentioned so many times in Revelation it is like shouting "Chakras, Chakras, hello, Chakras."

33 years old is when he ascends. Hmm.
Kundalini?

He teaches so much in so few words that very few people, like he said, will understand.


Paul had no idea what Jesus taught, nothing at all. So he taught... nothing!

But he used enough words that sounded good only if you don't read the whole New Testament straight through.

Then it becomes obvious that he was a jerk and the wolf in sheep's clothing Jesus warned about.

The old test of the false prophet. God is smart.



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 04:39 PM
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I see you got yourself another new account.

To be honest, I'm not so sure we have Jesus words, or Paul's either for that matter. It's really just...

...because at this point I just don't believe we can know what either of them said, or if the biblical Jesus even existed.

Welcome back.



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Why you letting that poor donkey get beat...in the GONADS?

So wrong. Balaam Baalam



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: LenatasataneL

OK, please explain the thief on the cross with Jesus?

All he said was remember me in your Kingdom.

Seems all it took for him was belief, or Faith, in Jesus.
edit on 6 10 2016 by stosh64 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: LenatasataneL

For God so loved the world that He gave His only beggton Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have ever lasting life Jn.3:16 God gives .We believe ,and get eternal life in Jesus Christ ....not of works but by faith are we saved which is salvation .....peace


Agreed, its so simple yet people like the OP love to try and complicate it.



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: stosh64

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: LenatasataneL

For God so loved the world that He gave His only beggton Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have ever lasting life Jn.3:16 God gives .We believe ,and get eternal life in Jesus Christ ....not of works but by faith are we saved which is salvation .....peace


Agreed, its so simple yet people like the OP love to try and complicate it.


It's so complex people like you have to simplify it.



posted on Jun, 10 2016 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: LenatasataneL

OK, please explain the thief on the cross with Jesus?

All he said was remember me in your Kingdom.

Seems all it took for him was belief, or Faith, in Jesus.



Do you doubt that the physical Christ taking the thief to heaven is possible or something?

What of the fact that both thieves mock him in Matthew? It doesn't occur in Matthew, Mark, or John.

In Luke the man defends Jesus, repents and ASKS Jesus to remember him. He asked, he received and this changes not one bit of the doctrine of Jesus. It only occurs in Luke and he was no eye witness so it sounds like a pious embellishment to me. 1 out of 4 and from a guy who never knew Jesus is not exactly a whopping doctrine changing event.
edit on 10-6-2016 by LenatasataneL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 04:09 AM
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ya have to read it to get this stuff....
Paul gave the message to the common person....then plowed really deep on what feel and think in this world.....gave us good insight....

that I don't want to do....I go right out and screw up....but it's normal.....

paul has good guidance there.....



posted on Jun, 11 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: GBP/JPY
ya have to read it to get this stuff....
Paul gave the message to the common person....then plowed really deep on what feel and think in this world.....gave us good insight....


I believe it was Jesus who gave the message, not Paul.

The message Paul gave is for the common unintellectual people who would never understand the meaning of Jesus teachings anyway, so it didn't matter if it was all lies. His goal was to deliver the message that Rulers are chosen by God and to be obeyed, masters obeyed by their slaves, men be obeyed by their wives and women remain submissive.

He created the first conflict in the community by stirring up contention between the Hebrew Christians and the rest of the Christians by calling them Judaizers, the circumcisers, super Apostles, sarcastically, Apostles of men, and his major goal was to eliminate Jewish independence movements and crush and deliver the Jewish Messiah into the hands of the Roman Empire and establish a religion favorable to peasants in the Empire, and help quell all Jewish rebellion. Paul was connected to the Herodians and was sent as a spy and did the three year initiation required by James.

Then he took what he had been entrusted with and created the first splinter faction/ denomination declaring himself an Apostle (never in the presence of the real ones) and that he had the true Gospel, the Apostles were hypocrites and not teaching the true Gospel and that all that was required was faith that Jesus was God and died as a human sacrifice for man's sins. He taught that the only thing required to fulfill the law was to love your neighbor. Jesus put that second to loving God, Paul omits it as a requirement without saying so. But it is because Rome wanted Caesar to be God and had tried to get Zealots to worship him and they would endure torture and death before calling him even Lord. This new religion was all about mind control and Paul its hero.




that I don't want to do....I go right out and screw up....but it's normal.....

paul has good guidance there.....



Can you tell me exactly what he says that has given you guidance so maybe I can understand?

You mentioned he went deep into what to feel and think in this world. We are supposed to feel and think without the need of being told how and what.

Why do you need to be told what to feel? Think?

From a deeply disturbed, double agent, trouble maker who was the most miserable despised person of early Israelite Christianity?
edit on 11-6-2016 by LenatasataneL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:13 AM
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Another bash Paul thread, what a surprise, his words must really be harmful to those who prefer their own philosophies about God and Jesus.

Madness: Insight, Volume 2

Paul compared men who resisted the truth and who tried to corrupt the Christian congregation to Jannes and Jambres, who resisted Moses. He assured: “They will make no further progress, for their madness will be very plain to all, even as the madness of those two men became.”—2Ti 3:8, 9.


2 Timothy chapter 3 (NWT):

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly* [Or “foolishness.”] will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11 the persecutions and sufferings such as I experienced in Antioch, in I·coʹni·um, in Lysʹtra. I endured these persecutions, and the Lord rescued me from them all. 12 In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. 13 But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* [Or “correcting.”] for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.


Jannes: Insight, Volume 1

A resister of Moses with whom Paul compares apostates who resist the truth. (2Ti 3:8, 9) Jannes and Jambres, whose ‘madness became plain to all,’ are not identified in the Hebrew Scriptures, but it is generally agreed that they were two of the leading men in Pharaoh’s court, perhaps the magic-practicing priests who resisted Moses and Aaron on their numerous appearances there. (Ex 7:11, 12, 22; 8:17-19; 9:11) The amount of tradition that agrees with this greatly outweighs what little there is to the contrary. Non-Christian sources, such as Numenius, Pliny the Elder, Lucius Apuleius, a Qumran writing, the Targum of Jonathan, and several apocryphal writings all mention one or both of these men.


Exodus 7:11, 12:

However, Pharʹaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers, and the magic-practicing priests of Egypt also did the same thing with their magic.* [Or “their magic arts.”] 12 Each one threw down his rod, and they became big snakes; but Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.

Rod of Asclepius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

In Greek mythology, the Rod of Asclepius (⚕)...is a serpent-entwined rod wielded by the Greek god Asclepius...
...
In honor of Asclepius, a particular type of non-venomous snake was often used in healing rituals, and these snakes – the Aesculapian snakes – crawled around freely on the floor in dormitories where the sick and injured slept. These snakes were introduced at the founding of each new temple of Asclepius throughout the classical world. From about 300 BC onwards, the cult of Asclepius grew very popular and pilgrims flocked to his healing temples (Asclepieia) to be cured of their ills. Ritual purification would be followed by offerings or sacrifices to the god (according to means), and the supplicant would then spend the night in the holiest part of the sanctuary – the abaton (or adyton). Any dreams or visions would be reported to a priest who would prescribe the appropriate therapy by a process of interpretation.[4] Some healing temples also used sacred dogs to lick the wounds of sick petitioners.[5]

2 Kings 18:4

Cross: Reasoning

“The shape of the [two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.”—An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962), W. E. Vine, p. 256.

“It is strange, yet unquestionably a fact, that in ages long before the birth of Christ, and since then in lands untouched by the teaching of the Church, the Cross has been used as a sacred symbol. . . . The Greek Bacchus, the Tyrian Tammuz, the Chaldean Bel, and the Norse Odin, were all symbolised to their votaries by a cruciform device.”—The Cross in Ritual, Architecture, and Art (London, 1900), G. S. Tyack, p. 1.
...
“Various objects, dating from periods long anterior to the Christian era, have been found, marked with crosses of different designs, in almost every part of the old world. India, Syria, Persia and Egypt have all yielded numberless examples . . . The use of the cross as a religious symbol in pre-Christian times and among non-Christian peoples may probably be regarded as almost universal, and in very many cases it was connected with some form of nature worship.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1946), Vol. 6, p. 753.

edit on 12-6-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

You said ten words and made it rain quotes.

Put in your own words what those quotes are saying. What makes Paul anything other than a jealous self appointed apostle? (false)

And do you follow the teachings of Christ in your life?



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 03:34 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

I am not bashing Paul. I am bashing a liar who created the first Christian cult. Saul, Paul.

He is in my opinion💨 ash. 🐺🔯


I have the world's only real picture of Saul/Paul let me see...👺

Exactly what he looked like.



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 04:32 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
Another bash Paul thread, what a surprise, his words must really be harmful to those who prefer their own philosophies about God and Jesus.

Madness: Insight, Volume 2

Paul compared men who resisted the truth and who tried to corrupt the Christian congregation to Jannes and Jambres, who resisted Moses. He assured: “They will make no further progress, for their madness will be very plain to all, even as the madness of those two men became.”—2Ti 3:8, 9.


2 Timothy chapter 3 (NWT):

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.


Paul knows this because he is exactly what he just described and so are his friends. He is manipulating and being a hypocrite with no regrets.



8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly* [Or “foolishness.”] will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11 the persecutions and sufferings such as I experienced in Antioch, in I·coʹni·um, in Lysʹtra. I endured these persecutions, and the Lord rescued me from them all. 12 In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. 13 But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* [Or “correcting.”] for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.


That is how cult leaders talk. He is telling people to be obedient to him but using the name of someone he never met. That is why he teaches a different Gospel and brags about this. Notice he had to "persuade them".



resister of Paul


Those are only the three important words in all of that.

HaShemhamphorash
edit on 12-6-2016 by LenatasataneL because: Migdal Beresh!th Yesha HaNozrim



posted on Jun, 12 2016 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: LenatasataneL
Paul is not teaching anything different. You seem to be though, just as those who have responded to you in this thread expressing their disagreement (who are also not teaching everything that Paul wrote and trying to fit their interpretation of his words into their beliefs and doctrines rather than adjusting them to what the bible actually teaches, including the books Paul wrote).

1 John 5:21 (written by John the apostle, NWT):

Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16a:

Do not become unevenly yoked* with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al?* Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?

1st * = Or “joined.”
2nd * = From a Hebrew word meaning “Good for Nothing.” A reference to Satan.

John 3:16 (NWT):

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

James 2:14,17:

14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.


Hebrews 10:22a, 24 (Paul writing again):

22 let us approach with sincere hearts and complete faith,...
24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,...


The entire bible is nicely consistent on important points you and many others don't seem to be very consistent on. As Paul said:

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* [Or “correcting.”] for disciplining in righteousness,...

Saved, Not by Works Alone, But by Undeserved Kindness: The Watchtower (2005)

...Clearly, even though works alone cannot save us, they are necessary. That is why Christians are called [by Paul] “a people peculiarly his own, zealous for fine works” and why they are encouraged to “consider one another to incite to love and fine works.” (Titus 2:14; Hebrews 10:24) More to the point, another Bible writer, James, simply says: “As the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”—James 2:26.

More stuff from Paul about this subject...

2 Timothy 2:15:

Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.

2 Peter 1:10:

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and choosing sure for yourselves, for if you keep on doing these things, you will by no means ever fail.

3:14:

Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.


edit on 12-6-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



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