Nearly half of DC employers have laid off workers, reduced hours due to min. wage hikes

a reply to: luthier

I could never call myself a Republican because of the religeous right. I should call them the progressive right since they also believe in legislating everyone's behaviour.

Wrong, it's the neo liberal movement that's policing everyones thoughts and language and getting laws passed about what pronouns you have to use when you talk to someone.

Conservative values are exactly the opposite of what you just said.

Source

Conservatives, long out of power at the national level, were well positioned to exploit this new mood. It was a time when many Americans were receptive to their message of limited government, strong national defense and the protection of traditional values against what were seen as the encroachments of a permissive and often chaotic modern society.

Hate to break it to you but limited government goes against exactly everything you just said.

Conservatives want to keep to themselves and not be bothered. Since everyone is starting to make that impossible expect a massive pendulum swing to happen in the very near future.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

Wages just reflect supply and demand of a particular labor skill.

Wages are effected by government invasiveness and poor trade policy more than anything.

Government intervention and poor trade policy affect supply by either restricting it or causing a surplus which is what drives wages. For example, many jobs require occupational licensing. The purpose of the licensing is to create a barrier of entry to keep entrants OUT of the field which serves to restrict supply and thus drive up wages.

With trade policy, the issue is that instead of say manufacturing workers just competing against lower cost manufacturing in other cities or states, those laborers are now competing globally. This basically increased the supply of available workers and thus drives down wages.

When you have a job or position that pays a lot of money it is usually because there aren't very many people capable of doing the job and/or that particular person generates a ton of money for their effort (i.e, sales executives who bring in many millions of revenue).

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: luthier

I could never call myself a Republican because of the religeous right. I should call them the progressive right since they also believe in legislating everyone's behaviour.

Wrong, it's the neo liberal movement that's policing everyones thoughts and language and getting laws passed about what pronouns you have to use when you talk to someone.

Conservative values are exactly the opposite of what you just said.

Source

Conservatives, long out of power at the national level, were well positioned to exploit this new mood. It was a time when many Americans were receptive to their message of limited government, strong national defense and the protection of traditional values against what were seen as the encroachments of a permissive and often chaotic modern society.

Hate to break it to you but limited government goes against exactly everything you just said.

Conservatives want to keep to themselves and not be bothered. Since everyone is starting to make that impossible expect a massive pendulum swing to happen in the very near future.

Uh no your wrong. Do I need to go state by state.

You have Republican Govenors making religeous laws in the south. You have Republican presidents inflating the budget, giving corporate welfare, starting military conflict, Nixon created the trade imbalance and got rid of gold standard, on and on.


There are very few conservative Republican politicians. I can think of Rand Paul and....hmm let me think.

Like I said both sides are progressive. Just a fact.

You can't call emergency sessions for bathroom bills costing hundreds of thousands to tax payers who never wanted you to make the law and call yourself conservative. Not to mention NC will loose billions in revanue.

a reply to: luthier

Republican has nothing to do with it.

Conservative values are not limited to a party.

Most Americans want, limited government, lower taxes, stronger military, support for veterans, protected borders and so on.

Hate to break it to you but to the average working class Joe here in America they just want to be left alone and go to work everyday and thats becoming increasingly hard, especially since illegals are coming in and replacing the workforce for half the wage and the money they make isn't buying them as many beers as it used to. Your going to be in for a wake up call when they start fining business owners for using the wrong gender pronouns and more businesses continue to feel the pressure from competing in a global market when the government is literally taxing them out of business and not imposing import tariffs on countries where they have the largest imports.

Wake up call incoming.

a reply to: Edumakated

I lean libertarian I like Hayak, Milton and people like mises are a good idealistic goal but he failed to understand money power and market manipulation through gov partnerships. It's a natural progression without regulation.

My question to you is at what point to you consider ethics in market policy? So you really think it's ethical to pay afull time worker poverty level wages? I don't exactly have the answer for the problem but raising minumum wage a quarter every couple years was probably a good idea when they invented it. Otherwise you may as well not have a min wage. It is pointless if it doesn't cover the most basic life needs. Personally I think wellfare should be given to the 40hr people who are making poverty wages.

Or raise min wage over the coarse of a decade while proportionately lowering corporate taxes.

a reply to: onequestion

I don't disagree. You jumped on me but I was using political language.

I am conservative myself. I have my own shop. I make guitars do set ups and do sound engineering at night.


I simply don't care about legislating peoples morality at all. Abortion, gay marriage, trans people whatever none of my bussiness. Once these morons stop focusing in that stuff maybe they will get to the economy. As of now they are just part of the problem. Thats the majority of "conservative" politicians.

Ron, Rand, Johnson they are the last of them. The conservatives as political party died with Eisenhower

a reply to: onequestion

Where are you finding that it is illegal to use certain pronouns to call people? People could get sued over this?

I know it is illegal to discriminate against transgenders and in public schools they have to allow them to use the bathroom they choose (sad we have to have laws for this huh) but pronouns?

Are you exaggerating?

or do you mean for ex... a man transgendered into a woman and his boss at HomeDepot was a jerk and referred to her as him? or "hey dude" or "Go see Michelle, He will get it for you"

Just don't be a jerk and you will not get sued

(still, sad this has to made into legislature bc of all the jerks in this world)

originally posted by: ugmold
a reply to: mobiusmale
Maybe they can reduce the CEO's pay to under 3 million a year, might help.

I made $10 an hour in the 1970's, time for a raise or just go out of Business.

Yeah, all the small business owners I know (and work with every day) make at least $3 million a year, while they are fleecing their workers.

Not even close to reality...

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Edumakated

I lean libertarian I like Hayak, Milton and people like mises are a good idealistic goal but he failed to understand money power and market manipulation through gov partnerships. It's a natural progression without regulation.

My question to you is at what point to you consider ethics in market policy? So you really think it's ethical to pay afull time worker poverty level wages? I don't exactly have the answer for the problem but raising minumum wage a quarter every couple years was probably a good idea when they invented it. Otherwise you may as well not have a min wage. It is pointless if it doesn't cover the most basic life needs. Personally I think wellfare should be given to the 40hr people who are making poverty wages.

Or raise min wage over the coarse of a decade while proportionately lowering corporate taxes.

Ethics has nothing to do with wages. A person's personal life has absolutely no bearing on what a business is willing to pay for that employees work. Absolutely none. With that said, nothing is stopping a business from paying what would amount to above market wages or paying a living wage. Many businesses do as a strategy to procure and retain top talent. However, the market is what determines wages ultimately. Most businesses don't do it because it could drive them out of business. No business is going to pay a run of the mill cashier $20/hr. just for the hell of it. The job simply doesn't produce enough in revenue / profits to justify it. A business would quickly find itself losing money.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to support a family or be a career. These jobs are supposed to be stepping stone type jobs where you work, gain some skill / discipline, and move on to another job.

a reply to: Edumakated

"Minimum wage jobs were never intended to support a family or be a career. These jobs are supposed to be stepping stone type jobs where you work, gain some skill / discipline, and move on to another job."

Is this a lil factoid that you created in your head?

a reply to: Edumakated

Well we disagree. Ethics is very important to business and fairness. Fairness is something the empericists and forefathers whole heartedly agreed with. This is why even free market economists like Hayek or Milton talk about reparations.

It doesn't matter if min wage jobs were supposed to be stepping stones when you have retracted the labour market with policy.
If you loose your job have a family and need a replacement it's far better to pay someone to work than give wellfare. The solution of letting that person slip through the cracks is not moral.

Min wage jobs may be the only alternative you have in a labor market because of political maneuvers. This will always happen. A safeguard just like regulating the market to not allow child labour is to make min wage pay for the basic necessities.

Worker exploitation is an ethical problem. It has serious personal liberty effects. The solution would be a court system that allows the little guy to sue for damages. That is not happening. Imo the ethical moral market conversation needs to be done. Even if the solution is a volunteer increase,. Give those bussinesses a tax break that offsets the wage increase. Seems like a win win.

originally posted by: Tsubaki
a reply to: mobiusmale

Demand goes down when prices go up? Maybe in a textbook, but this is the real world, where the cost of houses, hell even renting an apartment keeps going up, year after year. Doesn't look like there's a lack of demand there.

I'm don't particularly feel raising the minimum wage is the answer, but something has to be addressed somewhere.

Economics 101...and it does apply in the real world.

There is a certain elasticity to demand, depending on the commodity, but eventually (or suddenly in some cases) demand will tumble for products/services if prices continue to rise.

With respect to housing prices, this is the reason that demand for lower cost housing options go up in the suburbs, as prices rise in central cities....

At some point, in all cases, someone will appear in a market with a lower cost than competitors, and will take up the demand...sometimes in interesting ways (like high costs of rental office space, have been countered by technology allowing people to work effectively from home).

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Edumakated

"Minimum wage jobs were never intended to support a family or be a career. These jobs are supposed to be stepping stone type jobs where you work, gain some skill / discipline, and move on to another job."

Is this a lil factoid that you created in your head?

No, it is a fact of life that most in the productive class seem to understand. No one should be stuck in a minimum wage job unless you'e made a series of grave personal decisions with your life.

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Tsubaki
a reply to: mobiusmale

Demand goes down when prices go up? Maybe in a textbook, but this is the real world, where the cost of houses, hell even renting an apartment keeps going up, year after year. Doesn't look like there's a lack of demand there.

I'm don't particularly feel raising the minimum wage is the answer, but something has to be addressed somewhere.

Economics 101...and it does apply in the real world.

There is a certain elasticity to demand, depending on the commodity, but eventually (or suddenly in some cases) demand will tumble for products/services if prices continue to rise.

With respect to housing prices, this is the reason that demand for lower cost housing options go up in the suburbs, as prices rise in central cities....

At some point, in all cases, someone will appear in a market with a lower cost than competitors, and will take up the demand...sometimes in interesting ways (like high costs of rental office space, have been countered by technology allowing people to work effectively from home).

Thats a textbook ideology if I ever saw one.

Yeah they are dealing with the housing issue. Thats why they won't make an employee verification system and exploit workers.

I swear sometimes people are confused as to reality. The market creating goods in a supply demand fashion can be severely manipulated by money power. For example the Rothchilds loved playing with the price of gold by creating a majority ownership and creating supply issues. Both flooding or retracting . That is why we went off gold. The Arabs did it with oil prices. Hell the first Iraq war was over it.

The market needs regulations people. Not all the ones the gov made but human nature needs to be accounted for. Especially with a history of greedy market manipulation.

a reply to: Edumakated

Uh that's not reality anymore

Let's do simple math. There are 100 good jobs and 500 people. Those not lucky enough don't have an option to live as the preamble states?

I guess a bad decision is having a passion for mechanical engineering and then realizing China is pumping out 30k a month and there are very few ME jobs.

a reply to: Edumakated

OH, so in your world, and like-minded people like you, its a fact of your life.

originally posted by: damwel
I call bs. If they can operate with fewer people they didn't need them to begin with.

LOl they can all operate with less people. People call in sick, and no call no show all the time. Businesses dont just close the doors.

I guess we should just fire all the non essential employees so the others can get their 15 dollars? Some employers try to just find a job for people because they like them, not because they need them.

a reply to: imsoconfused

I think we give incentive for a goal through business tax breaks to offset the wage hike. But hey we don't live in a time where politics create solutions.

I also feel certain tax brackets should be taxed more not for benefits for all but to lower corporate taxes and have a better business environment.

They created regulations and taxes to keep only the biggest companies who can absorb the losses in power. It seems obvious to me. It was done by both sides of the aisle.