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originally posted by: Agartha
There is no evidence for the 'immortal tree of life'. You need faith to believe it and I don't possess such faith. I need proof.
Religions were created to oppress the masses, and they still do to this day. More people have been killed in the name of one God or another than they have been killed by disease, colonialism or greed.
Of course Plato believe that, in ancient times they didn't have the knowledge we have (of biology, astronomy, physics etc).
originally posted by: Talorc
What do you imagine an "immortal tree of life" really is? What do you think cooperton is talking about? A tree?
Where's your proof? For someone who values it so highly, I'm surprised you haven't provided us the relevant statistics concerning "people killed by religion." You can't quantify something so vague and stupid as that, which is why there isn't evidence for it. It's like saying more people have been killed by anger than anything else in the world, or more people have been killed by greed, or more by self-interest. It's not quantifiable.
The knowledge we have today is roughly comparable to what Plato had. Which is to say very little.
There is no evidence for the 'immortal tree of life'.
The cerebellum has traditionally been construed as a "primitive" neural structure, recent research has revealed that it can be involved in a host of fairly complex mental functions, including the timing of both sensory signals and motor movements. The cerebellum is actively involved in the classical conditioning of motor responses, as in eyeblink conditioning. Other theorists suggest that the cerebellum provides support functions for the rest of the brain, including monitoring sensory data and maximizing the quality of sensory input -- particularly with respect to tactile exploration of the environment(see "Rethinking the 'Lesser brain'" by J.M. Bower and L.M. Parsons, Scientific American, 08/03). As we acquire a motor skill, such as grasping an object or playing a musical instrument, control of motor activity gradually shifts from the cerebral cortex to the cerebellum -- a process that will be described further in the lectures on Learning, to follow.
maximizing the quality of sensory input
ASBURY, NJ (PRWEB) OCTOBER 25, 2010 Many acknowledge that Adam and Eve were initially immortal, but when the tree of life—a metaphor for physical immortality—and its implied fruit thereof were hidden, humankind could no longer ingest something by which to remain ageless. Perhaps it was too obvious in we-are-what-we-eat fashion, that we could actually consume our way to everlasting life. The pertinent question, though, is how or where was the tree concealed? A natural products chemist/pharmacognosist with seventeen years experience in drug discovery, now working independently, has found the tree of life hidden in plain sight of everyone—in the dirt beneath our feet, that is, in soil chemistry. Once the true meaning of Rev 2:17 was firmly grasped, and with alchemy or chemical transformation in mind, references dealing with eternal youth in the scriptures were analyzed from a biological perspective to determine the primary biochemical agents governing human longevity. Suspecting all along that the Creator had designed the human body to predetermined specifications where aging and longevity were concerned, a list of biblical evidence was compiled and interpreted accordingly. A free 382 page compendium of selected writings that addresses the subject of immortality in great detail is available at www.asclepiusonline.net.... The most important clues associated with food and/or immortality are embodied in the following references, highly summarized: 1) based on the way relevant scriptures were worded, Adam and Eve (humankind) were physically expelled from eternal paradise simply by the act of God cursing the ground, which hid the tree of life as a consequence thereof, meaning ground soil chemistry was deliberately altered in a way that henceforth made life both ephemeral and generally more difficult due to a negative change in soil composition, 2) after cursing the ground—implying specific elements were added to and/or subtracted from the soil to make it chemically inferior and generally less fertile—there was a justifiable reason why God would favor Abel’s offering of red meat and be neutral toward Cain’s offering of plants, as chemically cursed soil yields chemically cursed foodstuffs, some food apparently cursed more than others based on their biological origin, animal or plant, 3) deciphering the arcane symbolism used in Ezekiel to describe the cherubim, who somehow guard or hide the tree of life from humanity according to Genesis, reveals they ultimately transfer from soil chemistry into body chemistry through the food we eat, preventing or introducing immortality via two distinct chemical modifications of hemoglobin and myoglobin (hemoproteins), respectively, 4) the immortal God incarnate deliberately cursed an out of season fruitless fig tree, such an uncharacteristic act designed to draw prophesied future attention to this tree by offering a means to chemically extrapolate how the ground was cursed by comparison, suggesting figs contain a significant amount of an essential yet subsequently rare element necessary for sustaining his immortality by the chemical modification just mentioned, 5) after extracting and simplifying the first four clues above toward determining the two elements required to generate the hemoprotein types necessary for either mortality or immortality, the highly restricted ‘kosher diet’ of the Israelites was examined to verify that God indeed controls our longevity through food chemistry, as cursed soil leads to cursed food leads to cursed body chemistry, i.e. mortality, and thus, 6) Jesus was being both figurative and literal when prescribing consumption of his holy, non-cursed flesh and blood to acquire eternal life, as life everlasting would subsequently result by a steadily progressing internal biochemical transformation if and when his unique hemoproteins were continuously consumed over time. Points 4-6 above serve to reveal that Jesus’ genome and subsequent body chemistry differed slightly from ours—the ‘peculiar treasure’ (Exodus 19:5; KJV) genetically engineered by the Creator (‘vinedresser’) within a ‘chosen’ diet-restricted Hebrew lineage (Matthew 1:1-17) prior to Jesus’ birth—especially with respect to hemoglobin and myoglobin. This uniqueness effectively decoupled him from the negative influence of time via upstream suppression of all hidden DNA-encoded systems of aging. Finally, the jade body can indeed smelt chemically the life eternal pill, and the end product of that smelting process is chemically similar to both the fig tree puzzle and the mystery of Jesus’ flesh and blood. Solving all three riddles together yields any and all bioavailable forms of a metallic element that will make an individual immortal when ingested safely at regular intervals. Specific information about that element may be found embedded withing the website given above.
originally posted by: Agartha
For example: the Spanish inquisition (which really lasted 6 centuries and depending on the source the figures get to millions), the holocaust (millions again), the muslim conquest of India (80 million), the Atlantic slave trade (greed justified by Christianity) around 20 million, Sudanese civil war (millions again), the greates genocide: all the natives in North/Central/South America that were basically exterminated,executed if they didn't convert, etc etc.
Do you have any links regarding ascended masters from the B.C. era? I am interested, and wonder if they too talk about an intermediate heavenly realm. Dante Alighieri believed Plato was in a Limbo state, where he had all the knowledge of the Most High but was incapable of fully entering the holy city because Jesus had not come yet.
The Practise of Chemicall, and Hermeticall Physicke... London, 1605, contains an interesting description of alchemically produced phantom plants.
Another [demonstration of the living forces in salts] I received from a most learned and famous Polonian, a skilfull Physitian,
above 26 yeers since. This man was so excellently, and phylosophically skilfull in the preparing of ashes out of all the parts of any maner of plant, with all the Tinctures and Impressions of all the parts of the plant, and would in such wise conserve all their Spirites, and the Authours of all their faculties, that hee had above thirtie such plants prepared out of their ashes of divers sorts, conteynes in their several glasses, sealed up with Hermes seale, with the tytle of each particular plant, and the propertie thereof, written upon the same.
So, as that if a man desired to see a Rose or Mary-gold, or any other flower, as a red or white Poppey, or such like: then would hee take the glass wherein the ashes of such a flower was inclosed, whether it were a Rose, a Marie-golde, a Poppey, a Gilly-flower, or such like, according as the writing of the glass did demonstrate. And putting the flame of a Candell to the bottome of the glasse, by which it was made hote, you might see that most thinne and impalpable ashes, or salt, send forth from the bottome of the glasse, the manifest form of a Rose, vegetating and growing up by little and little, and putting on so fully the form of stalkes, leaves and flowers,
in such perfect and naturall wise in apparant shew, that a man would have beleeved verily, the same to be naturally corporeat, whereas in truth it was the spirituall Idea, indued with a spiritual essence: which served for no other purpose, but to be matched with his fitting earth, that so it might take unto it a soly[d] body. This shadowed Figure, so soone as the vessell was taken from the fire, turned to his ashes again, and vanishing away, became a Chaos and confused matter.
When I had seene this secret, endevouring with al my might to attain to the same, I spent much time about it, but yet lost my labour.
originally posted by: kibric
(tree of life is) allegory for me
originally posted by: cooperton
None of which adhered to the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek, loving others as your self, giving to the poor, etc. There is no Christian teaching that condones violence.
I disagree: we have increased our knowledge greatly in all areas, we have medical and technological advances that Plato couldn't have even dreamed about.
originally posted by: Talorc
I could gather together a group of people and start killing in the name of kittens. People will justify what they do with a million slogans, a million holy books, and a million flags, but when you kill someone you've adopted the philosophy of a killer and abandoned the philosophy of kinship and decency, irrespective of religion.
The Bible is nothing but words on paper, priests' sermons are nothing but air, a church is nothing but a building, and religion (as such) exists only in the minds of its followers. You, like religious people, are attaching your own significance to these things. You are two sides of the same superstitious coin.
That may be true, but look out your window. You probably can't see the Milky Way because of light pollution. Scientists can map distant galaxies and tell us how many light years we are from Saturn, but you can't look up into the night sky and see them for yourself. Are you the better for it?
In the greater context, our advances amount to a sandcastle, no sooner built than washed away. Don't disregard what ancient authors had to say; they rightly guessed many things.
originally posted by: Agartha
That's what I've been saying too: many hid behind religion to kill others for other reasons, but they still killed in the name of one God or another and their followers believed them and committed the same crime for the same religion. And you can't say that the philosophy of certain religions are of love and peace, look at Christianity for example, the OT is a book full of vile passages that incite violence of every form and type. And the OT is still part of the Christian Bible, part of the Christian philosophy.
And once again you are repeating what I have been saying: when I told Cooper that I am an agnostic but I am against religions, I said it is because I cannot prove nor disprove a higher power exists (or not), but I know a book so full of contradictions and violence could not be the source of an almighty deity. Not a chance.
originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: cooperton
The big difference is with those "names" they become also "forms" and then those names are used to control forms as a subject or slave... the difference between the two?
The PNS is responsible for repair (tree of life), whereas the SNS is responsible for coping with stress (tree of knowledge). Interestingly enough, eating from the tree of knowledge causes all circumstances that are known to be caused by the sympathetic nervous system: 1) Pupil Dilation – “Their eyes were opened…” (Genesis 3:7) 2) Fear and Hiding – “…the man and his wife hide themselves from… Jehovah God…” (Genesis 3:8, 10) 3) Conventional Childbirth (By the Male Orgasm - a sympathetic nervous system reflex) – (Genesis 3:16) 4) Stressful Work and General Survival – (Gen 3:17, 19, 21, 23) This dichotomy of the reptilian brain is represented in the caduceus of Hermes. The two coiling snakes represent the dualistic trees in paradise in the spine. Atop of the caduceus is a pinecone, representing the pineal gland located at the top of the reptilian brain. How the mystics were able to grasp these concepts without modern medical diagnostic tools is mind-boggling
The PNS is responsible for repair (tree of life), whereas the SNS is responsible for coping with stress (tree of knowledge)
Ever wonder how both the tree of life and knowledge are both in the middle of the garden (Genesis 2:9)
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine. (Eze. Eze. 47:12) Medicine (Eze. Eze. 47:12) is תְרוּפָה [ṯerûp̄â] : either from the root רוּף [rûp] , to make small as in medical powder, or from רָפָא [rāp̄āʾ] , to heal.2 Translated by ὑβίεια [hybieia] in the LXX: health, soundness of body. During the Millennium, the leaves of the trees near the river will provide for the physical healing of the peoples, but it is important to recognize that these trees cannot be the tree of life. Those who consume the leaves live to an advanced age, but do not avoid death (Isa. Isa. 65:20).3
When man rebelled in the Garden of Eden, he was cut off from the tree of life (Gen. Gen. 3:22-24). Since then, death has reigned over all peoples, even the people of God—with few exceptions. We rejoice in the fact that in the redemptive counsels of God, history is to be brought full circle to affect a full return to a Paradise without death which was previously lost:
originally posted by: cooperton
The New Covenant upholds the prophecy of the Old while establishing a perfect transcendental Law of love and altruism. Jesus abolished obsolete laws
If you would stop your hellbent pursuit of litigating God, you perhaps could come to the understanding that you claim to be seeking
I hope you see the relevance to your condemnation of the church. I know the frustration you are feeling, because I still go through it when I observe the hypocrisy of the church. Realize that the enemy has infiltrated the church, and see the context that Philip is referring to in the bold portion of the quote above.
originally posted by: Agartha
Please show me exactly where in the Bible it says that Jesus dying in the cross eliminated the NT laws, as that is the new covenant, right?
Cooper you are a sweet guy, and I know you are trying so hard to explain your belief to me because you have a good heart. But you have to understand that I see things differently and I can't understand why a loving God would allow the enemies to infiltrate his church and deceive his people. Same as I can't understand why he allows babies to be born with disease or to a life of suffering and abuse. Children are innocent and the fact that millions are starving and are being subject to physical/sexual/mental torture means there is no God who love them and who would save them, now, in this life, not in an unproven one after death.
originally posted by: cooperton
I said he abolished obsolete law - for example, he changed "eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek".
He fulfilled the law and was the firstborn of God without blemish that would atone for the sins of all humankind forever.
...and was the firstborn of God without blemish that would atone for the sins of all humankind forever.
To understand the totality of the workings of this world is no easy task.
which doesn't justify the cruelty of God against innocent children. How can you justify a child who is born with cystic fibrosis and lives a short life drowning with every breath he takes? How can you justify a child who is taken by sexual perverts to be raped until he dies? It doesn't matter how many verses you quote, if God existed and he was omnipotent he would save those pure souls from years of torture. You can't tell me God is waiting for the monsters to stop behaving as such. That shows no mercy for the poor little ones.