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I still think we need "XY" and "XX" labels

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posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

What about women who look like men?




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: boncho

Who ever said you need to look a certain way to be Trans?

A big fat hairy man might be Trans - yet everyone posts these pictures - we aren't questioning these people, we aren't questioning people who do everything they can to be the gender they associate with. Even under my xx xy idea, the ladies you have posted would not be in question. It'd take a blood test to know they were actually male.

I'm saying hairy men that look like hairy men, and are xy, and make no effort to look female, should not be near the ladies restroom .



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

We've already had these non-discrimination laws protecting transgender people in 18 states for years now with no major issues. They didn't all of a sudden have a massive number of hairy men going into the women's room. Enough with the fear mongering.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: onequestion

What about women who look like men?


It's real simple to understand and perfectly logical stop overreacting.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I get it. You are struggling with this. It's just not that simple.

You have women who look like men not because they are transgender, but because they are body builders who take steroids.

You have women who look like men because they are taking hormones but haven't had sexual reassignment surgery.

You have women who look like men who HAVE had sexual reassignment surgery.

You have men who look like women not because they are transgender, but they are cross-dressers, or maybe they're just really effeminate and like to wear short shorts and lots of jewelry.

You have men who look like women because they are taking hormones but haven't had sexual reassignment surgery.

You have men who look like women because they HAVE had surgery.

You have transgender women who wear makeup and dresses and have fancy hairdos, but they may have big hands, broad shoulders and deep voices.

Then you have women who look like women and men who look like men.

There's a whole lot of different people out there, and as long as they aren't hurting anyone, let them use the restroom that fits them best.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope


yet everyone posts these pictures - we aren't questioning these people, we aren't questioning people who do everything they can to be the gender they associate with.


These people exist though. These people are affected by the laws though. Your irrational fear of "big fat hairy men" is nonsense.

The argument being made [by opponents] is to [attempt to] prevent the law coming into effect... which allows trans to use the bathrooms they gender-indentify with. That means in one fell swoop you are saying these people cannot use the bathrooms they appear they should use.

You are saying the women in the picture should use the mens bathroom.

The "Er MER GeRD thernk Erv Der CHERDREN!!"-Argument is that every trans is a man in disguise or vice versa looking to prowl in the bathroom and attack your kids.


Even under my xx xy idea, the ladies you have posted would not be in question


What? They were born xy and they are still xy, so yes they would certainly be in question. The ladies I posted are born male. Get used to it. Let the reality sink into the unyielding brain of yours. People are born into a gender they don't identify with. They will never change their chromosomes but they will be able to supplement hormones and undergo surgery which makes them nearly indistinguishable from the sex they were born.

xx/xy bathrooms is absurd. And the fact people need blood tests to use the bathroom is absurd. It's just more of the same ignorant nonsense about this topic, which gets shoved down our throats every day because a few bigoted people can't get over the fact that something they don't understand is going to be recognized and understood under the law.

The same thing happened when segregation was abolished. Just remember there's really no benefit to being on the wrong side of history.


It'd take a blood test to know they were actually male.


What is your xx/xy solution then? uh... Your argument is then just keep everything as it is? if you didn't realize we already have mens/womens bathrooms. The discussion is to allow the women in the picture and every other trans like them, to use the bathroom they identify with with legal protections.


I'm saying hairy men that look like hairy men, and are xy, and make no effort to look female, should not be near the ladies restroom.


So you want some sort of visual scale that you approve of to decide whether or not someone is "officially" a man or a woman. As mentioned in my other post, plenty of normally born, xx females and xy males are misidentified by people.

So under your "visual cue" law some women would have to use the mens bathroom and vice versa.

We had a lady who rented from my aunt and uncle as a kid, had a unisex name. Whole family made jokes about her moustache. Grew a better one than my uncle did. Easily misID'd as a man, by plenty of people.

She'd be using the xy bathroom under your 'program' even though born xx. She is a big fat hairy (man looking) woman. That seems to be more important than anything else to you.

At least you've come out and said it though.
edit on 6-6-2016 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2016 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2016 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Nope not struggling.

Keep the law out of the bathrooms real easy.

Keep the law out of our language real easy.

If you have a beard a mustache and an Adams apple use the men's bathroom and shut up.

No misunderstanding



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Don't you liberals just want to police our language and dictate how we think?

See how that works?


Sure, everyone wants a piece of that pie.

The difference? Liberals don't live in a fairy tale land of cognitive dissonance where "Big Brother" is bad most of the time, but convenient when it enforces their will and dictates how we think.

I think that's where a lot of conservative anger comes from.

A lot of them are on public assistance, food stamps, want social programs and forward progress -- but they're being programmed and brainwashed by AM talk radio heads like Michael Savage that it's wrong, and that it isn't THEM that's the problem, it's the OTHER people. These OTHER MOOCHERS and DEVIANTS ... the media they consume pumps them up and inflates/elevates them higher than the people they're identical too ... when deep down they know they're the same. There's a massive emotional battle going on, so it comes out in the form of anger.

Stuff like this:

Moral control is good! Gun control bad! Bathroom control is good! Hate speech laws bad!

Public assistance is bad, except when *I* need it!

That's gotta wreak havoc on someone's subconscious....



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: boncho

I actually prefer no laws at all are made.

No anti-discrimination laws included.

Everyone can just use the bathroom they use. Like we always have.

Conservatives can get over the fact that people will identify differently than their born gender.
Liberals can get over the fact that laws will not be passed to cater to extreme minorities.

XX/XY wouldn't be a LAW. Just a labeling system.

I prefer no new laws. Government needs to keep out of our lives.

But if a big hairy man goes into the same bathroom as my daughter, you better believe action will be taken- even if it's more peaceful like calling the cops.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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Sure, why should we care about 200,000 Americans, give or take?

They're just American citizens with the same rights as everyone else ... except, not in this scenario.

Where's the line of importance going to be drawn? What's to be the final solution?

There's only about 5.4 million Jews in the US ... some of them are probably even intersex.

There's only about 12 million gays and lesbians in the US ... and some off them are probably Jewish.

What is to be done about all these "undesirables" one wonders?

/s



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Nothing.

They can be treated like any human.

There's laws against violence for instance.

Trans/gays don't need extra laws passed for them.

Jews don't need extra laws passed for them

If someone assaults another human being, the law has ways to handle this.

Why do we need to choose specific minorities and say they have extra protection?
edit on 6-6-2016 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:51 PM
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We've only had segregated bathrooms for like 130 years years. That's not quite two full generations of Americans.



In 1887, Massachusetts became the first state in the United States to pass legislation requiring any workplace with female employees to have a female-specific restroom


Link

Americans: Obsessed over who pees where.

As if we don't have more important issues in our world and lives...



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

So you've veered away from the "vagina goes into the women's room and penis goes into the men's room".

Well, that's a small victory I guess.

Now, you have to understand why these non-discrimination laws were passed in the first place. Some schools were forcing trans youth to use the bathroom of their biological sex, even though they looked way more like the gender they identified with. Some employers were forcing employees who were trans to use the bathroom of their biological sex, no matter if they didn't look like that sex anymore. Some transgender people who went to public places where it was known they were trans, were forced to use the restroom of their biological sex, no matter if they looked more like the gender they identified with.

This why these laws were passed. It has been working fine in these 18 states and over 200 cities nationwide. If it wasn't working fine, trust me, it would be in the media. The media loves a controversy - helps ratings.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Nothing.

They can be treated like any human.

There's laws against violence for instance.

Trans/gays don't need extra laws passed for them.

Jews don't need extra laws passed for them

If someone assaults another human being, the law has ways to handle this.

Why do we need to choose specific minorities and say they have extra protection?


There aren't any laws passed "for them."

There are laws being passed that single "them" out for invasions of privacy.

"They" can be treated like any human, but "they" just have to be stripped of basic dignity every time "they" try to use a public facility?


edit on 6-6-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

You can't talk science and logic when it comes to this issue! How dare you! So hateful!




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Who said it's legal to "strip them of their dignity" ?

Public humiliation, abuse, violence, etc are already illegal.

No need to single any group out and say " It's extra not okay to be bad to them "

Still not understanding.

Still wanting to understand, for the record.

I've changed my mind on many, many topics over the years.

This one.. No one has told me what the real issue is, and what these laws do to solve it.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Who said it's legal to "strip them of their dignity" ?

Public humiliation, abuse, violence, etc are already illegal.

No need to single any group out and say " It's extra not okay to be bad to them "

Still not understanding.

Still wanting to understand, for the record.

I've changed my mind on many, many topics over the years.

This one.. No one has told me what the real issue is, and what these laws do to solve it.


No need to single out any group? Except the 200,000 or so Americans that are not XX or XY? So you're withdrawing your suggestion in the OP?

Excellent, I agree!
edit on 6-6-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Still not helpful.

What terrible thing was happening before these laws?

What terrible thing will stop happening after these laws are passed?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Still not helpful.

What terrible thing was happening before these laws?

What terrible thing will stop happening after these laws are passed?


What laws are you referring to?

Be specific and I will be glad to respond.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

It really is that simple.

If a woman uses the mens bathroom i really couldnt care less

stop making mountains out of mole hills its really simple




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