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Delusions of the far left and moral relativism....

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posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: introvert


By your own description, you are not an alpha male. Also, the first rule of being an alpha male is to never talk about being an alpha male. It's not something you label yourself. It's something you just are.


Yeah sure.




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: introvert


By your own description, you are not an alpha male. Also, the first rule of being an alpha male is to never talk about being an alpha male. It's not something you label yourself. It's something you just are.


Yeah sure.


Don't you think that is an important aspect to highlight? You are obviously delusional as to who or what an alpha male is and yet you find yourself in a position to preach or question moral relativity and objectivity?

One must look within to answer those questions personally before they point fingers or ridicule others.

That is another trait of an alpha male.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
We're going to have to agree to disagree.

That argument is almost as good as mine.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: introvert


By your own description, you are not an alpha male. Also, the first rule of being an alpha male is to never talk about being an alpha male. It's not something you label yourself. It's something you just are.


Yeah sure.


Don't you think that is an important aspect to highlight? You are obviously delusional as to who or what an alpha male is and yet you find yourself in a position to preach or question moral relativity and objectivity?

One must look within to answer those questions personally before they point fingers or ridicule others.

That is another trait of an alpha male.


Totally agree with you.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: onequestion
We're going to have to agree to disagree.

That argument is almost as good as mine.


You can only answer the same question so many times before people need to read the thread and respond accordingly



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: AboveBoard

Ok ok men and women are exactly the same in every way i totally agree.


Who are you responding to? I didn't say that and you know it.




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Your thread is about this

I also truly believe that right now there is a massive attack on the hero archetype to suppress dissent as I've discussed in previous threads.

Those protesting Trump rallies are somebodies heroes and Trump is the bad guy.

To others it might be the other way around. How is that not relative or at least subjective.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: onequestion

Annnd we are done having a conversation.

If you want to claim I don't know what I'm talking about in regards to archetypes (sorry but I do and have studied the Jungian hero's journey and Joseph Campbell), while you yourself have not clearly established your own definition (except to call it the Hero Archetype) then it's not my fault friend, but your own lack of communication regarding what you mean. That's just insulting.

You can keep your stereotypes too. Yes, men are physically stronger on average. No argument there. The rest of your story about men and women is inaccurate at best. Though in fairness, the truth has recently become more available. We all grew up with those ideas. They just aren't reality, though.

Men were not the only hunters of meat or even of big game in prehistory so that "natural division of labor" stereotype really is bogus by current reasearch. Distorting The Past - review

The Invisible Sex - Uncovering the True Roles of Women in Prehistory

Prehistory was quite egalitarian. Women weren't pigeonholed as you suggest and neither were men.

Good day.

AB




Did you read your links? Neither of those texts say that women hunted big game along with the men. The conclusion of the first is simply that big game hunting wasn't as central to the survival of Paleolithic peoples as was previously assumed, and that the gathering activities of women were critical to survival and subsistence. The second abstract of a book just says that women took part in important crafting activities.

Men were, in all likelihood, the only ones doing intensive hunting. If that fact bothers you, I'm sorry. This modern polticizing of anthropology and history is ridiculous and I'm getting tired of it.
edit on 6-6-2016 by Talorc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: Talorc

Here is a better source... (I was trying to read through a bunch of articles on my phone and must have put up the wrong one - my apologies...my statements still stand, though they are a bit controversial to some.) Everyone participated in hunting. It would be true that men would most likely take the more dangerous parts of hunting, but big game hunting took less of a part in their society than smaller game, gathering plants and roots, fishing, etc. Women did not simply stay home while the men went out to hunt.



Recent anthropological research has revealed just how much Soffer’s colleagues overlooked. By observing women in the few remaining hunter-gatherer societies and by combing historical accounts of tribal groups more thoroughly, anthropologists have come to realize how critical the female half of the population has always been to survival. Women and children have set snares, laid spring traps, sighted game and participated in animal drives and surrounds—forms of hunting that endangered neither young mothers nor their offspring. They dug starchy roots and collected other plant carbohydrates essential to survival. They even hunted, on occasion, with the projectile points traditionally deemed men’s weapons. I found references to Inuit women carrying bows and arrows, especially the blunt arrows that were used for hunting birds, says Linda Owen, an archeologist at the University of Tübingen in Germany.
Discover Magazine - New Women of the Ice Age

Thank you for pointing out my error!!

- AB
edit on 6-6-2016 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: Talorc

You have to be in dream world to think that there's no difference between men and women. Complete fantasy land.

Of course she didn't read and respond to my links just social commentary.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:27 PM
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Ok guys I'm going to put forward a disgraceful and despicable idea and see if you think it's ok to do this as long as the culture says so since that's what many of you honestly seem to think.

Let's say some tribal community deep in the forest of Swizterland tortures and assaults little girls until they become women and keeps them tied to big rocks in caves with no light.

Let me guess as long as it's the culture it's ok right... it's all relative isn't it



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

What are you saying then?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

Yes, women wouldn't just stay home. That'd be incredibly inefficient for hunter-gatherers, to have half the population sitting back twiddling their thumbs rather than finding food. In nature there's no room for inefficiency.

But I've seen (and argued with) others who would have everyone believe that prehistory was some matriarchal fairy-tale, with ninja cavewomen with superpowers out doing "all the same things" as men. The archeology and contemporary anthro studies still show a pretty consistent division of labor. Ideology should never be conflated with serious science, but that's what happens all too often. Sure, it'd be nice if prehistory was a utopian fairy-tale, it'd be nice if ninja cavewomen hunted mammoths, but it's not the case.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
Let me guess as long as it's the culture it's ok right... it's all relative isn't it

Maybe I'm looking at this from a very different point of view but my point is that if it was your culture, you might be OK with it.

That is what is relative.

At the same time "your" objective morality is part of your culture and that is why you are ok with it. It might not really be objective, you just think it is.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I can say what I'm NOT saying. I'm not saying "men and women are totally the same in every way."

You said that.

You also said this:


I disagree. The roles men and women play have more to do with physical and mental ability than you think. Women are not physically big and strong enough to go out with hunting and war parties during times of tribalism and before we had gunpowder.

In this era nature was the sole determining factor in the roles of men and women.

The natural order dictated that men were to go to war and hunt and build while women were to take care of the children, collect food and water and whatever else they we're responsible for while the men were out dying.


So...do you consider women and men to have different "mental ability?" That "different mental ability" contributes to "gender roles?"

Just as an FYI, men and women hunted. Your divisions are not really true.


To Soffer, the implications of this study were clear. Upper Paleolithic bands had pitched their camps next to critical resources such as ancient salt licks or water holes. There the men spent more time scavenging bones and ivory from mammoth carcasses than they did risking life and limb by attacking 6,600-pound pachyderms with short-range spears.
LINK

They used nets for hunting, and plant foods made up the majority of their diet.


Although the full range of their activities is unlikely ever to be known for certain, there is good reason to believe that Ice Age women played a host of powerful roles—from plant collectors and weavers to hunters and spiritual leaders. And the research that suggests those roles is rapidly changing our mental images of the past. For Soffer and others, these are exciting times. The data do speak for themselves, she says finally. They answer the questions we have. But if we don’t envision the questions, we’re not going to see the data.



And about the men going off to war...war is a more modern thing, or so science shows. Prehistory was more peaceful according to more recent research. (War began 8000-10000 years ago)

Scienti fic American - New Study of Prehistoric Skeletons Undermines Claim that War has Deep Evolutionary Roots


Haas and Piscitelli write. "The presumed universality of warfare in human history and ancestry may be satisfying to popular sentiment; however, such universality lacks empirical support."


The assumption that men are the only ones who went to war is also not true, though more true for cultures where women were expected to be submissive. It was not as common as men but it was real.Chinese Women Soldiers - A History of 5000 Years
Women Warriors of the Middle Ages

My point is that your concept of male and female is based on stereotypes, and that those stereotypes are inaccurate.

Whatever. Believe as you wish.
edit on 6-6-2016 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard
First off allow me to apologize for my previous comment above I had just finished working out and the adrenaline hadn't had worked itself out yet.



So...do you consider women and men to have different "mental ability?" That "different mental ability" contributes to "gender roles?"


Yes men and women without a doubt have differing modalities of thought.

Did you read the source I linked that was all about how men and women deal with stress?

Apparently I need to relearn anthropology my education may be out of date on the issue. Doesn't change my position that men and women are physically different.

Livescience



Brain networks showing significantly increased intra-hemispheric connectivity in males (Upper) and inter-hemispheric connectivity in females (Lower). Intra-hemispheric connections are shown in blue, and inter- hemispheric connections are shown in orange. Credit: Ragini Verma et al, University of Pennsylvania - See more at: www.livescience.com...


Brain Connectivity Study Reveals Striking Differences Between Men and Women



In one of the largest studies looking at the “connectomes” of the sexes, Ragini Verma, PhD, an associate professor in the department of Radiology at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, and colleagues found greater neural connectivity from front to back and within one hemisphere in males, suggesting their brains are structured to facilitate connectivity between perception and coordinated action. In contrast, in females, the wiring goes between the left and right hemispheres, suggesting that they facilitate communication between the analytical and intuition. “These maps show us a stark difference--and complementarity--in the architecture of the human brain that helps provide a potential neural basis as to why men excel at certain tasks, and women at others,” said Verma.


Brain Differences Between Genders



Male brains utilize nearly seven times more gray matter for activity while female brains utilize nearly ten times more white matter. What does this mean?


Study: Men and Women React to Stress in Totally Different Ways


Stress Increases Empathy in Women, Decreases It in Men



Men respond to stress in a fight-or-flight manner, conserving their energy for the confrontation they fear is coming by turning inward. Women, on the other hand, take a “tend-and-befriend” approach.


Being an amateur and professional combat athlete in multiple sports I can tell you first hand that men are made for war and it's built into our endocrine system and our musculature.

Doesn't men women can't do it. Just means that nature designed men to do it specifically. What roll evolution plays in this I don't know. Women are far better nurtures than men without a doubt.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
Ok guys I'm going to put forward a disgraceful and despicable idea and see if you think it's ok to do this as long as the culture says so since that's what many of you honestly seem to think.

Let's say some tribal community deep in the forest of Swizterland tortures and assaults little girls until they become women and keeps them tied to big rocks in caves with no light.

Let me guess as long as it's the culture it's ok right... it's all relative isn't it


How come no relativist wants to respond to this?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 07:22 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I don't think I'm a relativist but if some one is they might see this as a loaded question or they might feel uneasy because their culture tells them it is not OK.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Its not a loaded question I'm pointing out this is objectively immoral and I'm waiting for someone to come in and say that it isn't.

It's a benchmark from which we can continue to workout what is and isn't objectively immoral.
edit on 6/6/2016 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
Its not a loaded question I'm pointing out this is objectively immoral and I'm waiting for someone to come in and say that it isn't.

That doesn't mean that people can't see it as loaded.


It's a benchmark from which we can continue to workout what is and isn't objectively immoral.

But, all you are going to do is work out what is and isn't immoral to you.




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