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High School Boy Wins All-State Honors In Girls Track And Field

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posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 12:05 AM
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a reply to: Freija

How am I supposed to make a better view on the issue, when the information about it seems crazy as hell? For example read the whole thing I wrote below please?


In your first source in the last post addressed to me it said here:
"1 of 24
Born in 1728, the Chevalier d'Eon had an illustrious career as a French spy and diplomat. After spending roughly the first half of his life as a man, the Chevalier began appearing at Queen Elizabeth's court dressed as a woman, claiming to have been assigned female at birth, and demanding to be recognized as such by the French government (an autopsy following the Chevalier's death showed the Chevalier had in fact been assigned male at birth). The Chevalier was such a well-known figure that the term "eonism" enjoyed a brief vogue as a descriptor for those displaying transgender or genderfluid characteristics."

Your link said all of that about the first guy,
this is what the source your first link uses as its primary source and it is crazy different then the source you gave:



Charles-Geneviève-Louis-Auguste-André-Timothée d'Éon de Beaumont, usually known as the Chevalier d'Éon, was a French diplomat, spy, freemason and soldier who fought in the Seven Years' War. D'Éon had androgynous physical characteristics and natural abilities as a mimic, good features for a spy. D'Éon appeared publicly as a man and pursued masculine occupations for 49 years, although during that time d'Éon succe...


Primary source used by from first source you have left for my understanding.

They used wiki as a link wtf, and also not only do they use wikipedia!!! Their own source in the first sentance, and the next 5 is used to describe right off the bat the guys ability to be a spy, charasimatic guy, diplomat, known for his ability to switch gender to blend in.

Your second link the good doctor (or the lady pretending to be one?) does not even source her research (HER OWN RESEARCH if it exists) or any real research, just makes an opinion and pastes it here as a fact, in your second source it is called out for and still not fixed and the doctor in question has replied after the fact of asked for her research fails to unveil but answers to how others can acquire the rest of the series, I find this absurd it does meet my idea of a place to search for facts.

I went through the first 2 of your long list of research and one does not even provide a single source, BULL.
I went through the second link, and the only single source goes to wikipedia "IT TALKES ABOUT A SPY" how can I use this as a clear cut case of historic transgenderism? They talk about a man that used to be a spy?

I stopped after going through these 2 sources, they do not make enough merit for me to believe the hype.
edit on 6-6-2016 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2016 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2016 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-6-2016 by Brotherman because: I m bad spelr n dum dum Grahammer




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: Hazardous1408


But running?


ok - so name the running even where the female record surpases the male record [ alympic , world , commonwealth etc ]



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 12:59 AM
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This is so far the best article I have read pertaining to how not only science but the law looks at transgenderism and why it is still in the DSM and also why it is called GD versus GID.

I will leave with this article which I consider good:

Link

Just a snippet can say alot please read the whole article as it is deeper then this snippet:



From a legal perspective, the classification of Gender Identity Disorder is extremely harmful to some trans people, but surprisingly beneficial to others. In one legal case, says San Francisco psychiatrist Dan Karasic, a trans woman from Utah risks losing the children she fathered before her transition. Because she is trans, a lawyer has argued that her GID is a “severe, chronic mental illness that might be harmful to the child.”

But in other cases, a GID diagnosis justifies insurance coverage for gender reassignment surgery and other medical procedures that sometimes accompany a transition. Having a diagnosis is the difference between a necessary medical procedure and something that can be perceived as cosmetic surgery that insurance won’t cover, Drescher says.

edit on 6-6-2016 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 01:08 AM
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ok no lol



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 01:09 AM
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you cheater



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 01:28 AM
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No matter what side people are on, the only thing I find offensive to the very fabric of civilization is that yet again people are treating this as a black,and white issue with a blanket cover-all solution and second that fingers are pointed in all the directions "they" planned to have people pointing to get the real SOBs off the hook for what they've recently discovered they've done. I only need offer one example to prove the point that things are different from case to case to case to case, what if this were written about someone called a boy competing in girls sport because, born with no clear penis or vagina, the decision was made with 50-50 odds to raise him as a boy then the child grows up feeling mom and dad made the wrong decision and because of it is forced to play tackle varsity football where if not for semi-hermaphroditism would be a small dainty girl? Problem is there is no answer and we can't honestly create some gender court to evaluate things from case to case. But what we can do is agree there's a loser on one side or the other each time, realize that while transgenderism happened in the past but so often because of communities of eunichs or castratti and now is happening at rates as much as one in a thousand when using babies with both or neither organs as a definer, and finally by tracking down the reason it all changed creating your rare rare grade transgender plus tens of thousands more who just started popping up. And in my opinion its the SOBs who realized ages ago that loading animals meant for consumption with steroids and hormones did indeed have dramatic effects on pregnancy and keeping quiet cuz of $ and cuz they could get away with passing it down a generation or two and l we should demand some heads roll cuz of it. It won't change the fact these cases will NEVER have black and white solutions and I hate to say but shame on ATS for joining the masses ignoring the real bad guys and treating it that way...but at least it would be a step toward changing the source problem which when fixed (unless forever more permanently damaged) would eliminate 80% or more of these cases in the future. Ps I mean no offense to tfansgendeded people but even they must admit an artificial element was introduced somewhere to explain these numbers cuz theyre 100 times higher than, say...homosexuals whose growth can be accounted for plain old natural born homosexuals who feel comfortable actually admitting it in today's society. One survey showing a sample with one in five boys not identifying as male however is something far beyond that.
edit on 6/6/2016 by AlexandrosTheGreat because:



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 01:32 AM
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This is a clear case of some punk kid who has never had his ass beat and it needs to happen.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 02:18 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: DupontDeux

I'd tell the girls that finished after HER, that her being born with a penis didn't stop girls born with vaginas from beating her.


Penis = he.
What about that is hard? What part? I'll try to explain it better.
edit on 6/6/2016 by IridiumFlareMadness because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 02:35 AM
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originally posted by: IridiumFlareMadness

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: DupontDeux

I'd tell the girls that finished after HER, that her being born with a penis didn't stop girls born with vaginas from beating her.


Penis = he.
What about that is hard? What part? I'll try to explain it better.


Brain is gender. Sex is physical.

Gender Dysphoria. Brain Gender is opposite of physical sex.

Female brain. Male physical body. Hormone therapy changes the physical body (does not eliminate the sex organ)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

The results of a high-school competition in Alaska outrage you?

You're going to be spending a fortune in Maalox, if you're not careful.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 02:50 AM
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originally posted by: BLee8127
This is a clear case of some punk kid who has never had his ass beat and it needs to happen.


Thanks for being so honest about the urge to authoritarian violence in this regard.

Really pisses one off when one's "inferiors" are treated just like "normal" people, don't it?




posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 03:43 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

The point is that maybe if he were born a girl she wouldn't have been good enough to qualify at all...giving actual females that spot.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:42 AM
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a reply to: Annee


Brain is gender. Sex is physical.


*golf clap*

Guess what? Sports are also physical. This person has a sex that does not match the other competitors in a physical event. Because his sex does not match, he has physical differences that in other venues and for others of his sex would give them an outsize physical advantage against the females he is competing against. The girls in this race are merely lucky this male is apparently a wimp. Most competent males at a sport would win, hands down.

When it comes to sports, these things should be divided by sex, not what "gender" you think you are because sports are physical competitions. If he wants to compete against the girls as a girl, he needs to take up equestrian or move into the realm of academic competition or find a co-ed league.
edit on 6-6-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:48 AM
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HE came in 5th and 3rd.a reply to: Kali74



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 06:49 AM
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Unless they were in the middle of transitioning or something she really should have been competing with the males. Isn't sports segregation based on sex, not gender? Not really any different to weight classes, as far as I'm concerned.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: Hazardous1408

The reason males and females are separated in sports, is because they have far different body make ups.
That's not to say that they can't compete against each other, but in sports, where your body is the main tool, it should be separated because male and female body types are far different.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: IridiumFlareMadness

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: DupontDeux

I'd tell the girls that finished after HER, that her being born with a penis didn't stop girls born with vaginas from beating her.


Penis = he.
What about that is hard? What part? I'll try to explain it better.


And what about the out of control commonplace occurrence in 2016 of babies born with both or neither? Surely they have a gender but since you can't ask a baby, how do you treat them? This whole thread is so unlike ATS...where are all these folk coming from who live in a black and white 2D universe?



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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Anyone remember the flap in the 70s olympics because the russian female athletes were XXY?since then, the olympic commosions stated that male or female if an athelete posses a Y choosome they must compete as male.

Theis gender bender is cheating by running against the girls.



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee


Brain is gender. Sex is physical.


*golf clap*

Guess what? Sports are also physical. This person has a sex that does not match the other competitors in a physical event. Because his sex does not match, he has physical differences that in other venues and for others of his sex would give them an outsize physical advantage against the females he is competing against. The girls in this race are merely lucky this male is apparently a wimp. Most competent males at a sport would win, hands down.

When it comes to sports, these things should be divided by sex, not what "gender" you think you are because sports are physical competitions. If he wants to compete against the girls as a girl, he needs to take up equestrian or move into the realm of academic competition or find a co-ed league.

Whoa careful we got some strong women here on ats who wouldn't like that you think against a girl, any male would beat them to a pulp and easily unless they are wimps, I find it preposterous in that with all the implanted spikes in my throat arms n head n piercing all over and all the muscles I warm up with unsupported 25 reps of bench pressing 425 pounds and being called scary that I don't think many consider me a wimp but many everyday girls and most likely EVERY girl who trains in running and track would wipe my face in the dirt if we had to compete. I don't see how you think every boy in theory is faster than girls trained in track and who run daily. In fact using that reasoning I'm shocked you don't end your post with. "But then, obviously, the girls would be at a major disadvantage since they're up against a man's brain."
edit on 6/6/2016 by AlexandrosTheGreat because:



posted on Jun, 6 2016 @ 09:38 AM
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Okay, I watched a couple funny movies and I'm over being angry but it is 7:00 in the morning and I've been up all night so I may be less than coherent. I would say I might ramble too but I always do that.


originally posted by: kngfc
a reply to: Freija

A question for you in regards to perspective to the subject of the thread. Do you believe that the born male athlete mentioned in the OP, identifying currently as a woman, should be both competing and receiving acclomades in womens sporting competitions? I ask because I often wonder if members of the LGBT community are aware that people outside of the LGBT community, such as myself identifying as a straight white middle class biologically born and proud male, are attempting to make sense of these modulated generational "norms".


You are asking for an opinion here and I usually prefer to deal in facts and science and this issue is complicated by a patchwork of laws and individual school district policies on the participation of transgender students in school athletic programs. Consider that any opinion that I offer will be just that and I may vary from the official party line.

I personally feel, as do the parents of transgender youth and professionals specializing in this field, that transgender students should have and must have the same social and educational opportunities of non-transgender students including participating in school athletic programs if that is what they want to do.

I do believe though in the interest of parity, that each case of this needs to be looked at on an individual basis. It's not like there are dozens of transgender girls at any one school clamoring to be on the team. Looking at what is really happening on a wider scale more often than not, is that transgender girls want to be cheerleaders or homecoming/prom queens rather than jocks.

Keep in mind, states and schools all across the country already do allow transgender students to participate in sex segregated sports and this hasn't been a huge issue unless of course the media or political concerns get a hold of it and make it the breaking story on the nightly news.

What some people fail to recognize is transgender girls that have been on puberty blockers, as many have, have never gone through male puberty or had their bodies masculinized with testosterone so there is no muscular or skeletal advantage to be concerned with since there won't be any. Many transgender high school students of today transitioned in early grade school and are indistinguishable from their classmates. Like any demographic, some will be more athletically inclined than others.

In my book, that would give these girls a free pass to play on any girls teams they wanted to as simply having a hidden penis offers no competitive benefits and may in fact be a disadvantage in some instances. Watch a couple minutes of the videos I posted on page 4 and see if you think anything about these girls would give them some kind of physical advantage in sports.

Second grade transitions and puberty blockers aren't always the case because that therapy costs in the neighborhood $20,000 per year and is usually not covered under health insurance (but that is changing). Because there are so many concerns that transgender girls may have an advantage over their natal female competitors, I think a little common sense and perhaps a little more scrutiny could minimize those concerns even though they may intrude on a transgender student's privacy.

Some may think this intrusion is unfair but I feel when it comes to sports, a closer examination of a transgender student's medical history is called for. If a student simply "identifies" and is not undergoing medical transition (blockers or hormones), my own opinion is there might be a physical advantage disqualifying that student from athletics. Again though, it is hard to have black and white rules because there may not be advantage because bodies come in all shapes and sizes and capabilities so this is indeed all very complicated and something still getting sorted out.

Obviously though, not every transgender girl has had the opportunity of going on puberty blockers. People have this image that boys suddenly decide to "identify" one day and magically they're girls but it doesn't work like that. Transitioning is a process and obviously the first qualifier for sports is that a student is lives full time and permanently in the gender that matches who they are as people. "Boys" aren't going to do this.

My criteria (and only mine) would be if they haven't been on puberty blockers, that they should be on HRT at least a year or so before competing against natal female peers to equalize any muscular or strength advantages. This is somewhat along the lines of the International Olympic Committee rules but they are more strict in that they require testosterone levels be below a certain point and all kinds of blood testing and such.

Most people also don't realize that when transgender girls are on estrogen, they also take a drug called spironolactone that blocks the production of testosterone and their levels of that hormone is usually measurably lower than even in natal females that also naturally produce it in the ovaries and other places in the body. A lot of folks have no idea or underestimate the power of these chemicals on physicality.

Yes, this is complicated and difficult for folks to understand because classically transgender kids and gender non-conforming and gay and lesbian kids are different things that get lumped together. I myself am outside of the LGBT community but I am very knowledgeable about trans issues mostly through my own independent research going back some 48 or more years. I don't even know any transgender people except online and I met them here on ATS.

For qualifiers and because you listed yours, I am a (mostly) straight white 61.5 year old divorced middle-class vagina owning strong and proud female woman that just happened to be born biologically male. I was never anything close to being a boy and I have never lived or worked as a man so my perspective on all this may not be the lens you're looking for? I am politically in the middle, not "far left" as some have mistakenly branded me but I am socially progressive and support equality. I don't "identify" as transgender and being transsexual was a medical experience I went through a lifetime ago and not something I am but if I can help you or anyone "make sense of these modulated norms", I will try but when it comes to Facebook's 50 flavors of gender, genderqueer, bi-gender or gender non-conforming etc., I haven't got much of a clue either because I don't fall outside the traditional binary and those things fall outside of my experience.

Thank you for asking your question. Not sure I answered it but feel free to ask more if you like.




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