Two origins for dogs......

Most of us know that dogs originated from wolves that came around man for food....and stayed.
That is the simple explanation.....but it has gotten a bit more complex.
Seems it was two different kinds of wolves....

The study drew on genetics and archaeological records. It included a complete genome from a dog that lived in Ireland about 4,800 years ago and more limited DNA from 59 European dogs that lived 14,000 to 3,000 years ago. The ancient DNA was compared to genetic data for 685 modern dogs.

The complex analysis led to this proposed scenario: Dogs arose from wolves in Asia and from a different wolf population in Europe or the Near East. Then, the Asian dogs traveled west along with humans. They arrived on the turf of the other dogs between about 6,000 and 14,000 years ago and partially replaced them or interbred with them, establishing a new population that is genetically different from Asian dogs.

www.msn.com...

Man's best friend for a long time: Dogs go back 33,000 years, study finds

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Did foxes, jackals and coyotes come from wolves, too?

Just wondering…

Interesting information. I wonder at what point human intervention/breeding of dogs entered into the picture? I admit, I was surprised that the info above indicated that dogs split away from the wolf 33,000 years ago. I would have bet much longer ago than that.

If this info is correct, that goes to show just how rapid evolution within a variegated system can progress.

a reply to: intrptr

I've always wondered that myself....I think they are all different.....like there were ancestors of foxes.

I also thought some breeds came from foxes....since they seem to look like them....guess I was wrong!

a reply to: argentus

All the breeds we have now boggles the mind.
I wonder how they did it.....from those small hairless dogs to Great Danes.....from Huskies to Jack Russell terriers.
They sure took the wolf look out of the breeds....and some breeds are pretty new evolutionarily speaking.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
All the breeds we have now boggles the mind.

Yep, genetic engineering writ large.

I guess once the basic template of the domestic dog was formed, through the inbreeding of the grey wolf and (we are told) an extinct wolf species from Northern Russia, it was inevitable that localisms in how the animal developed would have occurred. Sounds simple, but there are several species of wolves that have also com and gone over the last few tens of thousands of years.

To answer the question re foxes coming from wolves. Foxes and wolves are part of the same family tree, known as Canidae. The branches of that tree include wolf, dog, fox, jackle etc... However, if I recall fox is too distant to inbreed to produce hybrids. So, the wolf and the fox are related and come from a common ancestor in the dim and distant past, but have not created each other. They have evolved in parallel.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: intrptr

I've always wondered that myself....I think they are all different.....like there were ancestors of foxes.

I also thought some breeds came from foxes....since they seem to look like them....guess I was wrong!

I think even raccoons are an off shoot somewhere back when. Not sure about that, I saw it on the TeeVee.

Domestic dogs have been bred into many domestic shapes, not all of them would survive in the wild. The wolf is a pack animal and like pack and herd animals there's a code. To keep the pack strong, any anomaly is weeded out by the dominant members at or shortly after birth.

I've seen this with wild stallions (also on TV) theres a clip, its brutal but pertinent. I'll link it but you have to have some fortitude to watch it, Nature is brutal. I think this is why wolves still look like wolves and stallions still look like stallions. Differences, (seen as weakness) are weeded out…

YouTube

a reply to: intrptr

Nature is brutal, survival of the fittest.
I had an idea what would happen, but watched anyway.
The foal had no chance.....starvation would have been worse.

I am sure it's the same with wolves....and their "cousins".

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Yah, natural selection. Brutal to our eyes, but pragmatic as well. In the wild, a weaker animal slows down the herd, attracts predators, making it more dangerous overall for everyone.

Unlike humans, who don't butcher babies that aren't 'fit'.

Just wanted to make that distinction.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Yah, natural selection. Brutal to our eyes, but pragmatic as well. In the wild, a weaker animal slows down the herd, attracts predators, making it more dangerous overall for everyone.

Unlike humans, who don't butcher babies that aren't 'fit'.

Just wanted to make that distinction.

I made an agreement with the dogs and haven't forgot it. I am a dog according to rule of firsts but only after reproving every firstborn was me. Now I'm 1 thing that is only 1 thing. I haven't forgotten, they're kind of hard to work with though. When you paid your dues according to nature then choose to pay again you get double. I have authority over nature. The original predator. 333 is a measurement of the outer angles of triangle

a reply to: spectranometron

I have authority over nature. The original predator.

You could test that dominance theory by wandering around in the Serengeti, at night, naked.

I wouldn't recommend it though. They'd tear you apart for the ugly fun of it. Graphic...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: spectranometron

I have authority over nature. The original predator.

You could test that dominance theory by wandering around in the Serengeti, at night, naked.

I wouldn't recommend it though. They'd tear you apart for the ugly fun of it. Graphic...

I was not referring to the animals. Plants specifically.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: spectranometron

I have authority over nature. The original predator.

You could test that dominance theory by wandering around in the Serengeti, at night, naked.

I wouldn't recommend it though. They'd tear you apart for the ugly fun of it. Graphic...

I love animals because they do their job

"We find that dogs from southern East Asia have the same DNA types that are found in dogs all over the world, but also unique types that we don't see anywhere else," Savolainen said. "We saw that in the mitochondrial DNA, and now we see it in the genomic DNA as well."

-OP

The evolution of the following is cloudy and fascinating as well with influences in breed development:

It shows that the “Gobi Desert Kitchen Midden Dog” (i.e., scavenger) evolved into the “Small Soft-Coated Drop-Eared Hunting Dog” which then evolved into the Tibetan Spaniel followed by the Pekingese and Japanese Chin.

Another branch coming down from the “Kitchen Midden Dog” (but not the same branch as the Tibbie) gave rise to the Papillon and Long-haired Chihuahua and yet another “Kitchen Midden Dog” branch to the Pug and Shih Tzu.

The Professor places the Lhasa Apso, Tibetan Terrier and Tibetan Mastiff elsewhere, coming not from the “Kitchen Midden Dog” but from the “Large Spitz-Type Dog” which evolved into the “Heavy-Headed Dog that Moved North.” One branch from the “Heavy-Headed Dog” leads to the “Owcharke” (which still exists in the form of the Ovcharka breeds of Russia and central Asia) and then divides into the “Inner Mongolian” and “Mongolian” branches.

These branches lead to the “North Funlun Mountain Dog” and “South Funlun Mountain Dog,” respectively, and from there to the Tibetan Terrier and Lhasa Apso, also respectively.

Source