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Gender roles and the effects of shifting these roles on modern day society.

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posted on May, 31 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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Gotta bail. Before I go too far.

Sneaky pushes me over the edge.




posted on May, 31 2016 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Me too.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Gotta bail. Before I go too far.

Sneaky pushes me over the edge.


Sneaky is as sneaky does.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

I quite agree. There are reasons for the traditional roles of men and women. We are not the same. We have different strengths and weaknesses. The roles we traditionally hold are geared toward those strengths. Sure, there are exceptions, but most fit, unless taught otherwise, the pattern seen throughout history. This is one reason that stable ocieties tend to do things for the preservation of traditional families. Men providing, and women nurturing the children, and caring for the home.

The whole "equal rights" thing is misplaced, when it comes to the sexes. We can be treated fairly, and should be, but we are not the same. Equal pay for equal work is great. Equal pay for work that isn't, not so good.



I agree. Sadly others seem to take that away from my point.


I am a better shot with a rifle than my hubby due to excellent physical hand/eye co-ordination, so which one of us should pick up that firearm in the role of protector, should the need arise? Equal pay for equal work is great only if it is applied.


The statistic that women are better shots with a weapon is a great one and I love it. I, as well, am a better shot than the ex who actually taught me how to hunt. (He did not like that but what can I say? Biology.) But what about the statistical findings of how women perform intellectually under stress as a study done by Harvard suggests?


Gender differences in output quality study




In short, when women are under time constraints in competitive settings, they underperform compared to men in math and are less likely to choose to compete. Interestingly, without time pressures, women perform just as well as men in tournament math tests and outperform men in tournament verbal tests.


Men perform better in high pressure settings. Women perform better when being able to constructively deduce a conclusion.

edit on 31-5-2016 by SomeDumbBroad because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Annee
Gotta bail. Before I go too far.

Sneaky pushes me over the edge.


Sneaky is as sneaky does.


Yes, I am being sneaky by refuting claims and posting facts.

Laughable at best.

I really expected this discussion to be more constructive as apposed to name calling and personal bashing. Sigh.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

Not only that but because in part of the efforts of feminists and their insistence on equality, society has been re-organized in such a way that even if I wanted to stay at home and play the role of mother, either my husband has to be almost supernaturally successful or we have to rely on government subsidy to support that even with just one kid.

The days of being able to simply have one bread-winner are gone.

And there is a stigma if you announce yourself as a stay at home. People either pity you or think you are being selfish or lazy unless you run in certain circles.


You aren't kidding! As a stay-at-home mom, I have seen that attitude for years. Even among fairly conservative people, I have had people question how I could possibly want to be with my kids all day every day. Add in the home schooling, and the sock just grows! Then, of course, when it comes to the kids, people always comment on how well-behaved they are, and how smart. And, they are both. As a mom, I can't understand NOT wanting to be there for the kids. I can understand not able, but not wanting? Seems alien to me.

Lazy? No one wants to tell me that. Between housework, teaching, and all of the standard kid issues that take up time, shopping, event planning, nursing, counseling, and so forth, I do a lot more in eight hours than the average working woman.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Did you live in the 50s when roles were still pretty much defined?

I did. It sucked.

People were like robots. Each doing their duty for their gender assignments.

Lots of "I wish I could do that" - - "I can't because my role is . . . "


My parents did, and I was around not much later. My dad always worked to support the family, and my mother tended to stay home. She did work a few times, but she didn't like it, at all, and preferred to be home, being a wife and mother. Traditional roles all the way, and they were happy with that. Together till death, in fact. Just because it was the fifties, that doesn't mean it was bad.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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In summary, there is strong evidence suggesting that gender roles have always exist and the more we pull away from them the more dangerous it seems to be for our health and well being. We are no longer working together, each doing their part to help society flourish but rather scratching and clawing our own individual ways to the perceived top. Call me "old fashioned" but I believe that we should work together, and by trying to make us "equal" it is putting more strain on us all to change and adapt to these new "social norms".


gobbledygook

whats killing western society is the vapid and empty consumer culture.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

Not only that but because in part of the efforts of feminists and their insistence on equality, society has been re-organized in such a way that even if I wanted to stay at home and play the role of mother, either my husband has to be almost supernaturally successful or we have to rely on government subsidy to support that even with just one kid.

The days of being able to simply have one bread-winner are gone.

And there is a stigma if you announce yourself as a stay at home. People either pity you or think you are being selfish or lazy unless you run in certain circles.


You aren't kidding! As a stay-at-home mom, I have seen that attitude for years. Even among fairly conservative people, I have had people question how I could possibly want to be with my kids all day every day. Add in the home schooling, and the sock just grows! Then, of course, when it comes to the kids, people always comment on how well-behaved they are, and how smart. And, they are both. As a mom, I can't understand NOT wanting to be there for the kids. I can understand not able, but not wanting? Seems alien to me.

Lazy? No one wants to tell me that. Between housework, teaching, and all of the standard kid issues that take up time, shopping, event planning, nursing, counseling, and so forth, I do a lot more in eight hours than the average working woman.


All 3 of my best friends are stay at home mothers (all of them feminists as well) and they all have had to deal with the scrutinizing looks and the scoffs from other women. In fact, all of them used to work and are very strong women who believe in achieving success but they believe in preservation of the family unit more which I don't think should be constituted as conservative agenda, as some might have it, but rather a humanitarian effort to ensure that the natural roles are assumed and that we use our strengths for the good of humanity as a whole, not squander them for the sake of selfishness.

Personally, I feel like it is coming from a place of jealousy. I do not know a mother who does not want to be with their kids but I only know a few fathers who feel the same. I think it is wonderful that you are giving your children an eduction (I am not sure I would feel competent enough to take on home schooling. I was a nanny for a few years and it was enough for me to teach simple ABCs and basic math skills. I did enjoy it thoroughly, however and hope to one day be able to do it for my own children.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: syrinx high priest
In summary, there is strong evidence suggesting that gender roles have always exist and the more we pull away from them the more dangerous it seems to be for our health and well being. We are no longer working together, each doing their part to help society flourish but rather scratching and clawing our own individual ways to the perceived top. Call me "old fashioned" but I believe that we should work together, and by trying to make us "equal" it is putting more strain on us all to change and adapt to these new "social norms".


gobbledygook

whats killing western society is the vapid and empty consumer culture.


No one said anything about the death of Western society, just the effects and strain on individuals who adhere to a humanitarian effort and working together.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

I really expected this discussion to be more constructive as apposed to name calling and personal bashing. Sigh.


How could you possibly have expected different results with such a controversial topic on ATS? Some of us believe that our life achievements are the result of our personal efforts. What this topic basically said was that personal ability and effort is less important than biological factors, i.e. we'll never be as good as someone born with a d*ck.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

I really expected this discussion to be more constructive as apposed to name calling and personal bashing. Sigh.


How could you possibly have expected different results with such a controversial topic on ATS? Some of us believe that our life achievements are the result of our personal efforts. What this topic basically said was that personal ability and effort is less important than biological factors, i.e. we'll never be as good as someone born with a d*ck.



..... it's like you guys arent even trying anymore.




Pre-Historic times are still something of a mystery to us but there are obvious, telling signs of gender roles that date back to every society. There were female warriors and men who dealt mainly with the food supply but generally the signs point to different functions of these archaic societies and reinforce our modern identifications. If we look at the Chumash, we can see clear evidence of a prosperous community that worked together to grow and thrive. Women could be chiefs or priestesses but typically the women and men had different niches and were able to coexist this way for centuries. Archeologist examined many bones of the Chumash people and uncovered evidence to align such theories of gender role existence. Studying the bones they found common injuries that were shared according to gender.



Very 1st paragraph of the post. No bias. Women can do it too. Take from it what you will.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

I really expected this discussion to be more constructive as apposed to name calling and personal bashing. Sigh.


How could you possibly have expected different results with such a controversial topic on ATS? Some of us believe that our life achievements are the result of our personal efforts. What this topic basically said was that personal ability and effort is less important than biological factors, i.e. we'll never be as good as someone born with a d*ck.



..... it's like you guys arent even trying anymore.




Pre-Historic times are still something of a mystery to us but there are obvious, telling signs of gender roles that date back to every society. There were female warriors and men who dealt mainly with the food supply but generally the signs point to different functions of these archaic societies and reinforce our modern identifications. If we look at the Chumash, we can see clear evidence of a prosperous community that worked together to grow and thrive. Women could be chiefs or priestesses but typically the women and men had different niches and were able to coexist this way for centuries. Archeologist examined many bones of the Chumash people and uncovered evidence to align such theories of gender role existence. Studying the bones they found common injuries that were shared according to gender.



Very 1st paragraph of the post. No bias. Women can do it too. Take from it what you will.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:29 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
I don't understand why cultural gender roles are part of the same conversation as transgender?


Me, either....here we are being told it's all the other side pushing those issues, but we can't discuss roles without someone bringing that into it. Go figure!



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

And so can men, where are your stats and studies on the positives of gender role shifting? This is the issue we have - a lack of positive to negative for modern society.




Changes in Caregiving Roles Historically, research on child development has focused more on the sensitivity of mothers to fulfilling their children’s needs. However, in the last 20 to 30 years, research has increasingly focused on fathers. This is due to the growing role modern day fathers play in caregiving. A study conducted by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) found that fathers tended to be more involved in caregiving when: they worked fewer hours than other fathers; they had positive psychological adjustment characteristics (e.g., high self esteem, lower levels of depression and hostility, and coping well with the major tasks of adulthood); mothers worked more hours than other mothers; mothers reported greater marital intimacy; and when children were boys. Other research on the role of fathers suggests that the influence of father love on children's development is as great as the influence of a mother's love. Fatherly love helps children develop a sense of their place in the world, which helps their social, emotional and cognitive development and functioning. Moreover, children who receive more love from their fathers are less likely to struggle with behavioral or substance abuse problems.


www.apa.org...



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Annee

Show me another species on the planet where gender variations are normal and I'm talking about bugs and fish that asexual and reproduce.

I'm talking mammals walking on land.


We are not other animals. Show me another animal with a microscope.

Human's choose how they live their lives.

And I expected that comeback - - just wasn't sure who it would come from.


We are not other animals.......until it comes to claims that homosexuality is normal, because it's suppsoedly found in this or that animal species.

Convenient.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

And so can men, where are your stats and studies on the positives of gender role shifting? This is the issue we have - a lack of positive to negative for modern society.




Changes in Caregiving Roles Historically, research on child development has focused more on the sensitivity of mothers to fulfilling their children’s needs. However, in the last 20 to 30 years, research has increasingly focused on fathers. This is due to the growing role modern day fathers play in caregiving. A study conducted by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) found that fathers tended to be more involved in caregiving when: they worked fewer hours than other fathers; they had positive psychological adjustment characteristics (e.g., high self esteem, lower levels of depression and hostility, and coping well with the major tasks of adulthood); mothers worked more hours than other mothers; mothers reported greater marital intimacy; and when children were boys. Other research on the role of fathers suggests that the influence of father love on children's development is as great as the influence of a mother's love. Fatherly love helps children develop a sense of their place in the world, which helps their social, emotional and cognitive development and functioning. Moreover, children who receive more love from their fathers are less likely to struggle with behavioral or substance abuse problems.


www.apa.org...


I believe that is commonly known as "Daddy Issues".



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

And so can men, where are your stats and studies on the positives of gender role shifting? This is the issue we have - a lack of positive to negative for modern society.




Changes in Caregiving Roles Historically, research on child development has focused more on the sensitivity of mothers to fulfilling their children’s needs. However, in the last 20 to 30 years, research has increasingly focused on fathers. This is due to the growing role modern day fathers play in caregiving. A study conducted by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) found that fathers tended to be more involved in caregiving when: they worked fewer hours than other fathers; they had positive psychological adjustment characteristics (e.g., high self esteem, lower levels of depression and hostility, and coping well with the major tasks of adulthood); mothers worked more hours than other mothers; mothers reported greater marital intimacy; and when children were boys. Other research on the role of fathers suggests that the influence of father love on children's development is as great as the influence of a mother's love. Fatherly love helps children develop a sense of their place in the world, which helps their social, emotional and cognitive development and functioning. Moreover, children who receive more love from their fathers are less likely to struggle with behavioral or substance abuse problems.


www.apa.org...


I believe that is commonly known as "Daddy Issues".


That says a great deal. Good luck.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

And so can men, where are your stats and studies on the positives of gender role shifting? This is the issue we have - a lack of positive to negative for modern society.




Changes in Caregiving Roles Historically, research on child development has focused more on the sensitivity of mothers to fulfilling their children’s needs. However, in the last 20 to 30 years, research has increasingly focused on fathers. This is due to the growing role modern day fathers play in caregiving. A study conducted by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) found that fathers tended to be more involved in caregiving when: they worked fewer hours than other fathers; they had positive psychological adjustment characteristics (e.g., high self esteem, lower levels of depression and hostility, and coping well with the major tasks of adulthood); mothers worked more hours than other mothers; mothers reported greater marital intimacy; and when children were boys. Other research on the role of fathers suggests that the influence of father love on children's development is as great as the influence of a mother's love. Fatherly love helps children develop a sense of their place in the world, which helps their social, emotional and cognitive development and functioning. Moreover, children who receive more love from their fathers are less likely to struggle with behavioral or substance abuse problems.


www.apa.org...


I believe that is commonly known as "Daddy Issues".


That says a great deal. Good luck.


Just pointing out that there is a basic term already for it that is commonly used to describe the situation you posted.



posted on May, 31 2016 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad

Very 1st paragraph of the post. No bias. Women can do it too. Take from it what you will.


My point remains that an article on the ancient history of gender roles isn't the definitive authority for modern society. What worked best then doesn't necessarily work best now, and we need to weigh many other modern factors before proclaiming that "that's how it was, and it worked, so we should keep doing that."

Gender stereotypes aren't meant to be inflexible, and failing to live as my ancestors did hundreds of generations ago isn't going to signal the end of civilization. Back then women's lives meant less than the lives of farm animals. We were property. Do you really think that because that once worked that we should resurrect such archaic practices? Reinforcing outdated gender roles isn't the answer. That's like saying that stripping us of our rights is the best policy because that's how things worked for thousands of years. No.



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