Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Yeah, but Christianity is the all truthful, all loving, non-murdering, super religion, right? Give me a break...

Christianity? Yes, it is. Humans that make it into a religion, form governments or super-sized organizations (add cheese, please) with money and power? Aw, Hell naw!!

Here T.C. makes the distinction that a lot of others seem to ignore, or are not aware of.
Seems to me there is enough hate going around in the form of anti-christian banter. Seems I haven't seen too many(any) believers in Jesus just bashing away at others for no good reason (at least not without a tinge of guilt!!). I don't see the knee-jerk reaction is what I mean to say. If a believer in Jesus defends his position he/she is branded a bigot, hater, ignorant; an uneducated buffon who puts his shoes on backwards, what have you.
Men are fallible and have taken what was once pure and twisted till the point it loses any good effect. This gives leeway to conflict between differing beliefs because greed and power reign instead of simple love for one another. Eve wanted the power and Adam said you go girl!! The history of this rock speaks for the rest- war, from begining to present. We should all look to the war inside ourselves to see why we war whithout.

It's too early for this..................

Originally posted by HuramAbi
Islam the religion of Peace? Yeah whatever.

They even lie about what Islam and Muslim means.

Neither means "peace" but Submission.

Wrong.

Islam comes from the root word salama which means Peace.

Tyriffic, you just do not understand the rules. Any and all bashing of Christians no matter how vicious and untrue is considered justified and intellectual. Any defense of the Christian faith is automatically to be considered the rantings of bigots and obviously untrue. Any writing which criticizes the Christian faith is to be considered unquestionable true regardless of the lack scholarship, misqouting of history, or just plain made up statements. Any writing which defends the Christian faith is to be considered obviously false and the writing of an idiot reqardless of how well supported it is with historical fact. Once you know these rules, then you will understand how things are supposed to work. It is all right for the skeptics to bash the Christians but it is not all right for the Christians to make a defense.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Tyriffic, you just do not understand the rules. Any and all bashing of Christians no matter how vicious and untrue is considered justified and intellectual. Any defense of the Christian faith is automatically to be considered the rantings of bigots and obviously untrue. Any writing which criticizes the Christian faith is to be considered unquestionable true regardless of the lack scholarship, misqouting of history, or just plain made up statements. Any writing which defends the Christian faith is to be considered obviously false and the writing of an idiot reqardless of how well supported it is with historical fact. Once you know these rules, then you will understand how things are supposed to work. It is all right for the skeptics to bash the Christians but it is not all right for the Christians to make a defense.

Yes. I saw this long ago, I still can't let people off the hook you know?
(not you)-Tell me what Christians have done to you to make you so angry. I usually get the same garbage verbage in response-so be it. I would laugh to myself at this, but my personal experience tells me it ain't funny.
There is a spirit in this world man, and it does not like those who follow the Lord; or those who are seeking salvation.

Tyriffic, again you do not understand. Of course my sarcasm does not come through in the posting. You see I am a Bible believing Christian who has given up on disputing the hate mongering skeptics (anti-theists) because it is a futile effort. You see these people will accept any criticism of the Christian belief as established fact. In my surfing the net I have found skeptic writings which indicate that the author is without a clue about what he (or she) is writing about. Yet other skeptics accept these documents without question. Some of these writers are well respected by the skeptic crowd, but an actual critical analysis of their work indicates that most of what they wrote was totally without basis. Yet the skeptics accept these writings as if they were established fact (to say that the skeptics are more gullible than Christians would just start a fight). I have just accepted the total futility of debating these people.
My previous post was really dripping with sarcasm.

Just as "massalama" means "go in peace" or to that effect....

But it's kind of hard when all I've heard in the news for the past year is stuff about Muslim violence against non-Muslim believers and so much killing and death over religious beliefs.

That is because peaceful Muslims don't exactly make sensational news stories.... Stereotyping is one thing, but the demonization that the arabs have suffered in the western press, is intolerable.... All I can say is that I'm really glad I got to live with them for a few years when I was younger (Saudi), otherwise, I too would likely think that all arabs love strapping bombs on themselves.... truly shameful....

Jade- I did not word my post very well, sorry.
I caught the sarcasm ( reminded me of someone) very well and agree completely with you. I have given up also, yet I still fight on- I hate stupidity!

Originally posted by Leveller
What's done is done.
It doesn't matter about relationships between Islam and Christianity in the past.

Christianity seems to have moved on. Grown up.
Islam doesn't seem to have moved with the rate of growth of man.

It's holding him back.

This doesn't mean to say that Islam is a bad religion. It just needs to be rethought before being reapplied.

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Good point.

Ty, witches don't kill, satanist do, and they are a branch of christianity. Witches? No, sorry, wrong. If you went by what christianity says, then they are old ugly hags who prey on children. If you went by facts and the truth, they are peaceful, nature loving tree hugging people. And most of the female witches I know aren't old or hags, but young and WooHoo!

Also, satanism is a branch of christianity. What other religon has satan? None. Satan is a christian creation, so any religon to deal with him is a branch of christianity.

And I think jag said in a demeaning/sarcastic way that non-believers are right and don't need any proof. Uh, isn't that the same with christians? And don't most non-believers have something called science and facts to back them up? Science saying, unlike what the church said, we were round, not center, and older than 6,000 years old? I shudder to think if the church had remained in power and we never got out of the dark ages. First, no new technology, why? Car, satan, plane, satan, Jazz music, satan. Church called all those and many more the works of satan when they were first introduced. Medicine? Witchcraft. Psychiatry? Witchcraft. Doctors/nurses/midwifes? Witchcraft. What happened? Killed. Well, in old days the church had them killed unless they revoked whatever and agreed to house arrest.

Anyways, where is your proof you are right? The bible? Which one? Old, New, James? The one with the most pages? I have many of the same type. Guess what? Over hundred page difference between longest and shortest. Guess which one has most amount of writing missing? The short one. What are they editing out? What was edited out one hundred years ago? A thousand years ago? Who wrote them? Where is the proof they wrote them? How do you know the government didn't do it to make people the mindless sheep the bible tells you to be? Who was educated back then? Rich people. Who had power? Rich people. Who benifited from the mindless sheep people? Rich people.

How do you know? Has anything from the bible been proven? Noahs ark ever found? Eden? Babylonian Tower? And then, with the crap in it. A tower so tall it fell and spread people all around the world. Sorry, physics say you would die on impact. World flood and only two of every animal saved. Biology says you inbreed you die. Same with Adam and Eve. Heck, what about the seperation of the water fish? If a world wide flood happened one if not both of these would happen. Water to fresh for saltwater fish, saltwater fish die and or water to salty, freshwater fish die. Then, where did all the water go? Where is the evidence this happened? If the whole world was covered, there should be some evidence.

Then, what day were dinosaurs created? How did Adam and Eve keep themselves from being eaten? You say well a day didn't really mean a day, yet when it says thou shalt not kill it means that. So, what is a metaphor and what means what it says? So far it seems if bad, a metaphor, if good, means what it says. But what is bashing baby heads on rocks a metaphor for?

Then evolution and proof of it. Fossils show dolphins going from land to sea. Evolution of fish in fossils.

Or more stories. After Cain killed Abel, he was sent away with a warning on him that warned the others away. Who were these others? There was Adam, Eve, Cain, and Seth left. Who were the others that were out there?

Or proof universe expanding from the big bang. Also, if god created everything, who created god? If he was always there, where did he live when there was nothing? And why did he wait four thousand years(going by 6,000 years church says is right) before he told people about christianity? If christianity was the right one, but only made 4,000 years later, what happened to the people during those 4,000 years? They all go to hell because god never told them he existed?

I don't expect to get any answers. Well, any reasonable logical answers, for that needs science and facts, not mythology and blind faith. All blind faith takes is fear of the real world and ignorance to what is going on around you. Faith is good, but most have blind faith and say this is the way, you go to hell if you don't agree. How I know? A book edited millions of times tells me so. I don't know for a fact these people wrote it for this purpose, but that is what the blind part is for.

James,
I think we part ways when you say satanism is a branch of christianity.

I must step away,but I'll be back. This is interesting.

Tyriffic, perhaps James the Less does have a point. To believe in the power of Satan, then one must acknowledge that God exists. Hence Satanism is anti-Christianity, those who reject God's acceptance and love. At least the Satanists are honest as to whom they owe their alligence. They reject God and make no bones about it. You know the saying, "If you are not God's friend, then you are God's enemy". The Satanists stand up and say, "We are enemies of God". At least they are honest about it (unlike most people). As far as "skeptics" accepting any thing critical of Christianity without question. I can mention a name of writer well accepted by the skeptics, but I won't because it will be futile to refute the work. But this person has made a lot of statements about Buddist and Krisna beliefs that are just not true. In fact any one who has done any study of comparative religions would be immediately suspicious of this person's writings. I have read most of what has been published on the internet by this person and can find no qoutes from Buddist or the Vedas or any qoutes from a Buddist or Vedic scholar to support any of the assumptions. (Sort of like making claims about Christian beliefs without qouting the Bible or a Biblical scholar.) However this person's books are accepted without questions by the "skeptics", even those who claim to have made an exhastive study of the world's religions. As to the proof of the existence of God, I have received personal proof and need no more evidence than that.

I actually was disagreeing with equating Christianity,i.e. the faith brought to the world by Jesus, with two pagan beliefs that relate in no way to what Christians in Christ follow.

I do not see how Wicca and Satanism-the idea that Satan was created by"christians" is a slap in the face to believers in Jesus; it is a lie- become just like Christianity.

I do not see how Wicca and Satanism-the idea that Satan was created by"christians" is a slap in the face to believers in Jesus; it is a lie- become just like Christianity.

Tyriffic, it is more a slap in the face of God than Christians. Indeed I concur, Satanism was not created by Chistians. If fact, Satanism existed before Christianity - Satanism is basically Baal worship which has been around since the time of Moses. I was basically pointing out that those who worship Satan must acknowledge that God (and Christ) exist and the worship of Satan is a rejection of God. (Satan worshipers can really sing "Born to Lose".) Satan worship cannot be equated to Christianity, but Satan worship can be related to Christianity as being the total rejection of God's love. Let's put it this way: Christian = Friend of God, Satan Worshiper = Enemy of God. That is what I meant about the relationship between Satanism and Christianity. I also meant to indicate that at least Satan worshipers were honest about whom they serve rather than being in denial like some.

Ok. Up to the very last sentence we saw eye to eye.

What your saying is people that hold to the belief as Jesus as Savoir are in denial? And, Satanist know they are lost, so they are not?(in denial)

[Edited on 8-7-2003 by Tyriffic]

Wicca/witchcraft have nothing to do with satan. They don't believe in satan, and true ones don't believe in evil itself. They believe in bad things, but something to be evil would be like saying something always is this. Like all christians are holy and good. Or all satanist are bad. Look at pastor pitts. He is a con man in the cloth. He got in trouble for debriefing(literally) himself and some women. Or catholic preists, supposedly the holy of holy, and there they are raping children. But not all did, which is why I didn't say all preists were doing that. Of course, not all satanists go as far as sacrificing humans and all that.

But yes, I do say satanism is a branch of christianity because there was no "satan" before then. You had Loki, a mischevious god, or the Ice Giants in Norse religon, but they weren't "satan". You had fairy people who would lead people astray in Greek religon, but no "satan". Jews, the place christianity was born from didn't even have a "satan". Satan was created by christianity to be the bad part. A "If you follow, you will go to good place, if you don't, you will go to bad place lead by satan."

I know I come up with weird things and diss on christianity alot, but I saw something last night that made me think. Christianity may have in the past killed millions when the church was in power, but today, in the middle east, they hack and cut their little kids with swords. I was disgusted by this. They lead a little kid down the road so people could hit him in the head with the SHARP part of a sword! Not the dull side, but the part that will kill you!

Also, beware of the Pebble People! They come and steal your socks. You may say they don't exist, I've never seen one. But the thing is, have you ever seen god? Besides, the Pebble People are all powerful and created humans so humans would make socks for them to eat. This explains where socks go when you do laundry. Now, what does this havbe to do with anything? It just proves that when you want to explain something, use all powerful invisable things no one can disprove someone will hear or see it and begin to think, could that be right? Well, off subject, but till a thinker with the bible. No proof of anything in it, no one has ever seen god, no proof of who wrote it. All you have is that one single book to base your life on. But say I wrote a book. A Pebble People book that is found hundreds of years from now. Would people begin a religon? Would they go out and kill non-believers? Will it become corrupt over the years by editing and made into a mass mind control device that the bible/christianity is today? Will it go from free thinking is good to be a sheep in the herd or you go to hell? You all knoiw the bible tells you to be sheep in the herd while the higher up is the shepard. You all know you have no free will if you want to go to the happy place. Of course, free will is null to the divine plan in the bible. That's right, something happens? It was in god's divine plan. No free will, all sheep going to and fro with each other. Mindless. Autotrons. Baaaa!

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

Fact of the matter is wherever the Islamic world is, there is violence and war. There's nothing worse than being a neighbor of an Islamic state, save that of being a non-Muslim in an Islamic state, or the most horrid, being a Christian convert from Islam in an Islamic state

Where exactly are you getting your facts from?.....
Thier violence and war in every state, every religion.
And i agree with gaz, you should get to know a muslim before you sit on your fat asses and believe what the news would want you of Muslims. Actually sit down and understand thier culture and stand point. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that chrisianty is better than Islam, im not islamic or christian either. It just shows how poorly educated that person is.
Deep

A look at the wars going on last year, of the conflicts around the globe, all but one involved Islamic nations or groups.

As far as someone believing there belief system is superior, that in itself is illogical. If one believed another belief to be superior, why would they cling to the inferior? A didn't take an accumalation of 7 years "higher" education to figure that out.
Sheesh!

I find it difficult to find any "Christian" nations with which to war. Sure, there are some societies, such as the U.S., that is based upon a Christian foundation and morals, but it is stretching reality to the breaking point to say Christianity is at physical war with anyone.

Originally posted by Illmatic67

Originally posted by HuramAbi
Islam the religion of Peace? Yeah whatever.

They even lie about what Islam and Muslim means.

Neither means "peace" but Submission.

Wrong.

Islam comes from the root word salama which means Peace.

Nope. Submission. Muslims that have no desire to conceal, and have much more knowledge than you've acquired, have readily admitted that to me. I'm not talking little teenaged American kids being sucked into a counter-culture, I mean Saudi men who are born and raised, reared in the culture Mulsims. I'm not buying the watered-down-for-gullible-American-counterculture-kids crap.

For James,
If you are Wicca I wish not to insult. I do know what my beliefs say about Wicca, Satanism et al. :Both suffer under Satan. I don't see any benefit from Jesus in either.


The world is being forged into war by the strong belief of Islam to convert all infidels to Allah. Only by war can this be accomplished.

The naive may say, let's see eye to eye, tolerate..... the sad truth is, some do not want either. In war, there is no compromise.

And, no. Christianity has not ever waged a war to convert. The papacy is not of christ. I'm not afraid to say it! See, I do not see Jesus ordering people to believe in him.

[Edited on 8-7-2003 by Tyriffic]