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USAF warms to the idea of an upgraded F-22 line.

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posted on May, 28 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58
Yes I agree , may be there is some works in the black enable to build a 6th gen quickly if the need is here . It look like Northrop is in the first line for the 6th gen fighter. The problem is the need for a new fighter is for a decade so do you think its possible to have it in the year 2025 ?




posted on May, 28 2016 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: darksidius

Depends on when they start the process. It'll take 5-10 years from contract award to have the EMD aircraft flying. As for Northrop, they're the only ones that have gone public with their ideas. They're all working on their own designs.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58


Hey! What do I know?? I haven't seen anything prior to this about 10 years. There were some 2-3 year claims on the thread.


Somewhere in between, perhaps?



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

That's what I was referring to, was the claims they were making of 3 years. Somewhere between but more towards the 10 mark. Probably no earlier than 6-7 years. It will probably take 5 to get the production facilities set up.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Isn't taking the very best you have and making it better better than taking a hopeful second best and hoping it will be better sometime?




posted on May, 28 2016 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Take all the thing that Zaph said and then add in the fact the military cannot help but add improvements.

Frex, I keep hearing (and groaning over) adapting the F-35 avionics to the F-22.

That will add more time.

In addition, a bunch of parts that were critical to the F-22 from suppliers will no longer be made, so replacements will need to be found. And qual'ed.

I stand by my 10 years.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj

Except that what everyone forgets is that the so called second best is that way because it does a completely different job.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Jonjonj

Except that what everyone forgets is that the so called second best is that way because it does a completely different job.


True. I suggest they just tool up the yf-23 instead and give it 6th gen upgrades in its protype.



posted on May, 28 2016 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: anzha


Fair enough....



posted on May, 29 2016 @ 04:34 AM
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So does anyone have an idea of what 6 Gen will be? What will the game changer be?

Can I suggest it might not be stealth but perhaps a laser that can shoot any missile out of the sky, this would need power, ultra fast computing, more powerful 360 degree radar, reliable and mission availability and a payload.

So for me, the next gen aircraft will be a B1 style capable of Mach 3 super cruise and designed to be super reliable, onboard power generation to power a suite of processors guiding multiple radar and lasers, rotary hypsersonic BVRAAM missile launchers facing forwards and rear and the ability to drop tens of LGBs with a large fuel tank....

Just putting it out there, why mess around with stealth if you can make something nothing can hit?

Now I am only taking the P but how long do you wait for 6 gen to be designed whilst your '70s aircraft 'may' become fodder to some of these emerging russian or Chinese fighters (neither of which I rate but dont know anything about them) but what happens when you find out the F-15 and F-18 are obsolete and fodder to some new aircraft and you dont have a 6th Gen line running?

What if intelligence already knows that they are in trouble?

Just putting it out there.

What if



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: Forensick
So does anyone have an idea of what 6 Gen will be? What will the game changer be?

Can I suggest it might not be stealth but perhaps a laser that can shoot any missile out of the sky, this would need power, ultra fast computing, more powerful 360 degree radar, reliable and mission availability and a payload.

So for me, the next gen aircraft will be a B1 style capable of Mach 3 super cruise and designed to be super reliable, onboard power generation to power a suite of processors guiding multiple radar and lasers, rotary hypsersonic BVRAAM missile launchers facing forwards and rear and the ability to drop tens of LGBs with a large fuel tank....

Just putting it out there, why mess around with stealth if you can make something nothing can hit?

Now I am only taking the P but how long do you wait for 6 gen to be designed whilst your '70s aircraft 'may' become fodder to some of these emerging russian or Chinese fighters (neither of which I rate but dont know anything about them) but what happens when you find out the F-15 and F-18 are obsolete and fodder to some new aircraft and you dont have a 6th Gen line running?

What if intelligence already knows that they are in trouble?

Just putting it out there.

What if


The f-15 and f-18 are already seen as fodder and obsolete. as to a 6th gen i suspect the green and yellow ladys are that answer.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: Forensick

Speed, better sensors/fusion, netcentric capabilities.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58


I disagree on a few of your points. Based on my understanding of logistics and industrial implementation applied the production line of the F-22 it was meticulously preserved in custom built containers for storage in California. The AF has stated it would take less than 200,000,000 to re-open the line. I would guess that they could have the factory open and employed with trained workers within 2 years. I would guess 5 years would be when the first "B" model would roll off the line and then 6-7 years a squadrons worth would be nearing IOC and FOC within 10 years. If they truly had to start from scratch then I would be more toe-to-line with your analysis. I also don't think that the AF would make that many changes to the F-22 in new production. I think a "B" model would be a clone of the A model with minimal changes mostly to avionics. There is really no need to implement any of the F-35 tech to the F-22.The F-22is proven effective and has shown great ready rates and the rapid raptor(right name?) program has proven it's capable of speedy and lengthy deployments. Also to consider, any changes to the F-22 would mean that the schools in existence for maintaining the F-22 would need re-cert for existing cadre.


Source-Navy Matters




edit on 30-5-2016 by Caughtlurking because: ?

edit on 30-5-2016 by Caughtlurking because: thanks z58



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Caughtlurking

All the estimates were based on up to five years after ending original production. The tooling is intact. That doesn't mean the production line is. Marietta turned the production space over to working on C-5 upgrades, P-3 work, and C-130 production. Unless they want to cut production of the F-35 in Fort Worth, they're going to have to build somewhere to put the tooling and build them.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: Bfirez
a reply to: nwtrucker

The F22 fills the role better than the F35 for many of those nations. Canada and Australia in particular. So how does the foreign sale work though with the current embargo. IIRC congress made it illegal to export the 22


I doubt the so called Allies can even afford it. It is overpriced and overpay because everyone wants to be a Billionaire. If this was 1950's. I bet those Raptors would've cost $8 million dollars.

www.dollartimes.com...


edit on 30-5-2016 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: makemap

If this was the 50s those Raptors couldn't exist. You can't build aircraft as advanced as the F-22 or F-35 or any other stealth aircraft cheaply.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

If you build it, they will come. Lockheed's Fort Worth facilities can't be as busy or crowded as they once were. F-16 line is at a trickle and set to end in 2017. I'd be willing to bet that they can get something up there pretty easily. The place almost looks empty in any satellite pictures.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Jonjonj

Except that what everyone forgets is that the so called second best is that way because it does a completely different job.


I see what happened here, you think I am comparing the 22 with the 35.

That wasn't what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say was that given the f-22 is such an amazing airplane, perhaps any 6th gen aircraft of its class may not be better than a revamp of the 22, given the requirements involved.

I word things badly sometimes.




posted on May, 30 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm mostly kidding, but how about Wichita? A joint-venture with Boeing (if the USAF is still willing to speak with them at this point) might be a way of making this happen that could draw a lot of political heft with the, uh, "manufacturing synergies" that it brings to the table.



posted on May, 30 2016 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: Caughtlurking

As the F-16 line is slowing down, they're moving the F-35 over. Once they go to FRP they're going to need the space.




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