Hawaii Could Be First to Put Gun Owners in Federal Database

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: butcherguy

Why do they write the serial # of the weapon on the firm if all they are doing is a background check on me?

Because the ATF needs to find whether that gun has been used for any crime, even new guns. Your name, and social security is provided for the background check, but it is illegal for any government agency to keep this information in a database, or have any form of gun registration.

So, there is no database, but if the gun is used in a crime, the feds can pull up the serial number and see who purchased it.
Sounds a lot like a database.

Not exactly. If I am not mistaken, shop owners that have an FFL are only required to keep records of the purchase on file, and are not required to file that info with the ATF or other authorities.

originally posted by: neo96

We both know they are not suppose to do it.

And we both know they DO lots of thinks they are not suppose to.

It is very possible that they are doing it, more so knowing the things the current administration has been doing to push for gun control and even for gun confiscation. But if this list exists, and someone finds it and gets out?... It would be the final nail in the coffin to the far left wing agenda on gun control and gun confiscation, and it should be the end of the Obama administration. But so far the Obama administration has been found to have armed Mexican drug cartels, and has lied, yet nothing has happened to them...

If that list exists, they are going to keep it quiet until they introduce more laws that dismantle the Constitutional right of Americans to keep and bear arms, and also laws like the 1986 FOPA Act.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: introvert

I was using your description:

people that apply for jobs in which they work for government operations, facilities, or other occupations in which the applicant/employee comes in contact with children, elderly and other "vulnerable" individuals.

See that?
Or other occupations that come in contact with children or the elderly.
Wouldn't that cover a person working at a grocery store?
Or are children and elderly banned from grocery stores?

No. I was referring to jobs that are specifically designed to care for children or the elderly, such as childcare facilities or retirement facilities.

Again, read the document.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It is very possible that they are doing it,

More than likely.

Hell take a look at the peoples republic of H.

en.wikipedia.org...

They actually givin the peoples republic of Cali run for their money.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: introvert

I was using your description:

people that apply for jobs in which they work for government operations, facilities, or other occupations in which the applicant/employee comes in contact with children, elderly and other "vulnerable" individuals.

See that?
Or other occupations that come in contact with children or the elderly.
Wouldn't that cover a person working at a grocery store?
Or are children and elderly banned from grocery stores?

No. I was referring to jobs that are specifically designed to care for children or the elderly, such as childcare facilities or retirement facilities.

Again, read the document.

Read this: NBC News

Hawaii could break new ground on gun control by entering firearm owners into a federal database that will allow police to find out when any of them get arrested.

The proposal, which has passed the state Legislature and is awaiting a signature from Gov. David Ige, has drawn criticism from gun owners and some legal scholars who say it would infringe on owners' rights.

But others say it would probably withstand court challenges, since the Supreme Court has backed states' ability to regulate gun sales.

What did I misconstrue?
This isn't FOX News that I am citing.

Here is the title of the article:

Hawaii Proposes Becoming First State to Put All Gun Owners in Federal Database

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

But wouldn't it be a states decision to follow through with this? Either way, DC is corrupt and if TPTB want this they'll try their best to make it a reality by forcing states to adopt it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Older thread relevant to this one.

The proposed new city regulations, which could only be aimed at High Bridge Arms, would have required the shop to take and preserve video of all transactions and turn customers' personal data over to police on a weekly basis

Surrender: San Fran's iconic, last gun shop to close over new regulations

Thats how they get around the FOPA.

a reply to: butcherguy

Just because it's NBC does not mean they are completely correct or being completely truthful.

Quit being lazy and read the damned document before believing what you are told by the media. Then we can discuss the constitutionality of it.

From your source:

The bill involves an FBI database known as the "Rap Back" that currently tracks people who are in "positions of trust," such as school teachers and people who work with the elderly. Stephen Fischer of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division told The Associated Press. Hawaii would add gun owners to the list.

The document does not say all, that I have seen.

a reply to: introvert

You keep telling me to read the document.
Was it in the linked article?
Was there a link to it in that article?
I have yet to see it.
Have you?

a reply to: introvert

Calling me lazy?
At least I am not disingenuous.
You refer to the document.
Quit being so lazy and post it.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: introvert

Calling me lazy?
At least I am not disingenuous.
You refer to the document.
Quit being so lazy and post it.

I did. It was on the first page.

Here it is again:

trackbill.com...

Most people entered in the "Rap Back" database elsewhere in the U.S. are those in "positions of trust," such as school teachers and bus drivers, said Stephen Fischer of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division. Hawaii could be the first state to add gun owners.

Bull and CRAP!

And the below quotation explains why that is BULL CRAP.

The cost to enter names in the database will be covered by a fee paid by gun owners, which wasn't defined in the bill.

Any excuse to milk the people out of their hard earned money.

Any blooming excuse will do.

Hawaii?

You do MAO proud.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: introvert

Calling me lazy?
At least I am not disingenuous.
You refer to the document.
Quit being so lazy and post it.

I did. It was on the first page.

Here it is again:

trackbill.com...

Do you have the app?
I am mobile right now and the message I got says that they will get back to me within 12 hours.
You are insinuating that you read it, so post it.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: introvert

Calling me lazy?
At least I am not disingenuous.
You refer to the document.
Quit being so lazy and post it.

I did. It was on the first page.

Here it is again:

trackbill.com...

Do you have the app?
I am mobile right now and the message I got says that they will get back to me within 12 hours.
You are insinuating that you read it, so post it.

I am on a desktop and don't have a smartphone, but you can download the app, I believe, at this link.

trackbill.com...

Hmmm.

The purpose and intent of this measure is to allow county police departments to enroll firearms applicants who were granted a permit to be included in the federal rap back program, which will provide a mechanism to alert the county police department when the owner of a firearm is arrested for a criminal offense anywhere in the country

Nowhere does that differentiate WHO.

Your Committee finds that criminal history record checks for applicants to acquire firearms are critical to ensure the safety of the community. Under existing law, a thorough background check is conducted on all applicants to acquire a firearm. Once a permit has been issued, no further checks are conducted on the firearm owner. As a result, county police departments have no way to know if a current Hawaii firearm owner has been convicted of a crime in another state that would prohibit that person from owning a firearm.

Doesn't say it there either.

trackbill.com...

So NOW.

Hawaiian residents have to constantly PROVE to the STATE they are worthy of ownership.

CONSTANTLY.

That is an undue burden on the public.

And it's totally ridiculous.

originally posted by: introvert

The document is not very long. Read it and then comment. Let's talk about this logically and reasonably.

Did you actually read it at all?...

"A BILL FOR AN ACT RELATING TO FIREARMS,"



begs leave to report as follows:



The purpose of this measure is to enable counties to acquire accurate information on applicants for firearm registration by:



(1) Requiring the county police departments to perform a criminal history record check on a person registering a firearm in the State before a determination is made to register the firearm; and

(2) Authorizing the Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center to access firearm registration data.
...
State agencies have been authorized to use the Rap Back system for more than forty purposes since 2012, including checks of teachers, daycare operators, Hawaii Health System Corporation employees, and traffic management employees with access to secured areas. Your Committee finds that county police departments should have similar access to information about criminal activity committed by individuals who possess and own firearms.
...

www.capitol.hawaii.gov...

It is a firearm registration bill... It isn't being done just for criminals. EVERY PERSON would have to register their firearm.

a reply to: introvert

Thank you!
I just read through it.
After a list of specifically covered persons lasting 10 pages,
The catch all phrase is in Section 2, Paragraph 42:

(42) Any other organization, entity, or the state, its branches, subdivisions or political agencies as may be authorized by law...



Any other organization or entity.
-Corporations
-Clubs
-Sole proprietorship

Oops, I almost forgot Black's legal definition of entity includes this word....
PERSON.

originally posted by: introvert

The document does not say all, that I have seen.

Check again.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

NEVER going to Happen . As a State , in these United States , there is a thing called the Second Amendment . Hawaii MUST Obey the LAW .

a reply to: butcherguy

as may be authorized by law

That is the part we need to focus on. Does that mean it only applies to those organizations/entities that are bound by the current laws to report their firearm ownership?