The Kaaba in Mecca, Temple to Hermes?

a reply to: dashen

I don't need to you can read the Wikipedia entry on Idris just for basic information.

Only the founder of the Baha'i faith is mentioned as identifying Idris with Hermes and that is his assumption he has no scripture to connect it to Islam.

So I think you're looking at a minority for information about the majority which isn't very logical.

Idris

Personally I don't have any use for learning about fringe religious beliefs.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: dashen

Only the founder of the Baha'i faith is mentioned as identifying Idris with Hermes and that is his assumption he has no scripture to connect it to Islam.

So I think you're looking at a minority for information about the majority which isn't very logical.

Actually they were the Greatest Sufi Masters,

a reply to: dashen

Again, not interested. I know that the Mosque with the Kaaba was not erected by or for Sufis and I know it isn't a temple for Hermes.

Sufism is not the same as regular Islam and has many unorthodox beliefs that don't affect anyone but Sufi's.

So I finish this ridiculous conversation here.

a reply to: Parazurvan

Deny ignorance

a reply to: dashen

You too.

a reply to: Parazurvan

ig·no·rant

adjective

1. lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

I'm not the one who refuses to learn about the early philosophers of Islam

brilliant thank you for sharing, this really fits with me. The power of stone and humans is much more than meets the eye.a reply to: dashen

a reply to: dashen

You're quite correct in all of this very well done, what most people don't get is that retrograde Mercury will communicate in terms of constant lies and misinformation, in this aspect relating to the concept of Lucifer as popularly imagined, but the qualifier is that information communicated is always technically neutral and that it is what the individual receiving such makes of it that counts, thus if the false information conforms to the evil desires and expectations of such an individual it will be accepted, a good individual would reject the same as ridiculous, in short Mercury set the Arabs up.

a reply to: Parazurvan

You're totally wrong in all of that, Thoth was the Egyptian Moon God, in ancient Egypt all planetary spiritual aspects barring perhaps Venus were related to Horus as components of his psyche, in Sumeria a similar sort of situation had prevailed were they related to Ninurta though by Babylonian times there are contradictions and later still in Greco-Roman times the planets were individuated.

In Earnst L Martin's book the people historry forgot he focuses on Simon Magnus "There was a large Jewish colony in the Yemen in pre-Islam times, and they maintained an organized communal existence for centuries until they were brought to Palestine a few years ago. These Yemenite Jews certainly go back to the fourth century C.E., and at one time the ruling king had become a Jew. Two [Jewish] descendants of these people exercised a profound influence on Muslim tradition. At the dawn of Islam the Jews dominated the economic life [of the region]. They held all the best land in the oases of Taima, Fadak, and Wadi-I-Qura; at Medina they must have formed at least half the population."
Guillaume, Islam, p. 11

It is important to realize that Muhammed was very familiar with Jewish and (consequently) Samaritan religious beliefs and practices. But this was not all. Muhammed himself was a member of the Hussein branch of the prestigious Koreish priestly tribe that had long been in charge of the sacred area of Mecca. Just who were these people who made up the Koreish tribe?

The priestly Koreish tribe of Mecca, to which all the Arabs of the peninsula gave honor and respect, has an interesting traditional history associated with it. Its ancient origination was from one of the most famous cities and regions of Mesopotamia. They were known to have come from Cutha (the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th Ed., vol. 17, p.399b). Cuthawas a city located before the days of Alexander the Great a few miles northeast of Babylon. It was one of the earliest priest cities of the world. It was formerly the capital of the ancient kingdom of Sumer which came into being right after the Flood. It was first built by Cush the son of Ham (from whom it was named) and it was a city associated in power and influence with Babylon itself. And note this. It was the same central area from whencethe Samaritans who lived in central Palestine came from. That’s right, Muhammed and the Samaritans had the same origin. It means that both of them were a part of The People That History Forgot.


The fact that Muhammed had his origin from a priestly tribe that came from the famousCutha in Mesopotamia is a most significant bit of information. At the time of Muhammed, the city of Cutha had long ago disappeared (it came to an end just after the time of Alexander the Great), but for the Koreish tribe to remember their prestigious priestly origin for the centuries that followed shows that they held their Cutha ancestry in esteem. The word "Koreish" means the same as "Cyrus" in Hebrew and they may have adopted the name in honor of the Persian king because he restored the priesthoods in Mesopotamia to their former prestige and let peoples raise up temples and priesthoods in other areas of the Persian Empire. The Koreish knew they came from the priestly center of Cutha and they said Abraham was born there. This means that at sometime in the past (probably a few centuries before Christ when Cutha was still thriving as a city), some of the priests from that region of Mesopotamia moved into western Arabia and joined forces with the people of Ishmael by marrying into their stock and becoming their priests.

www.askelm.com...
www.askelm.com...

Mystery Babylon is where all of this stuff comes from . Judaism's Strange Gods ~ Michael A Hoffman brings forward from the time of the return to the land of Judah out of captivity the peoples and customs they learned in captivity . Not only the jews but all of the other tribes and cultures of the region .

You can bet that while in Babylon they were indoctrinated into the Mystrey religions and then freed by Persia to return home .

From Martins book "Indeed, the philosopher Karl Jaspers in his work titled The Origin and Goal of History made the observation that the epoch surrounding the time of the prophet Jeremiah was what he called "the Axial Period" for the history of mankind. His thesis was that near that time the world went into a brand new type of philosophical and religious belief that caused the great world religions that we know of today to have their basic origins. He felt it was no accident that Buddha, Lao-Tzu, Zoroaster, Shintoism, the Greek philosophers, the beginning of Judaism, were all concentrated in origin within this "Axial Period" of history. And the center of it all, according to the Bible, was the Neo-Babylonian Empire and its first king who was Nebuchadnezzar. It can be shown that much transplantation of Babylonian ideas and religious beliefs were introduced, into India at this time (which altered Hinduism in some of its essential teachings). And from India, they spread into China and the eastern areas of Asia.

When all is said and done, it can be shown that all the religions in the world that we see about us at the present have in one way or another been influenced by the people that came out of the region of Babylon. And in the case of the Samaritans and others like them who gave Christianity its present form of idolatry, we can know that it was inspired by Simon Magus, himself a Samaritan. And, as mentioned above, even Islam has its basic teachings coming from the priests of Cutha who originated in Mesopotamia. It is no wonder that the Bible refers to the age from the time of Nebuchadnezzar to the second advent of Christ as being the age that will be dominated by Babylon and its philosophies (see the Books of Daniel and Revelation)."

Martins book is too narrowly focused but is great for some nice Dots . Hoffmans work is really eye opening in bringing the bigger picture forward

a reply to: the2ofusr1

It was one of the earliest priest cities of the world. It was formerly the capital of the ancient kingdom of Sumer which came into being right after the Flood.

I think you're confusing Kutha with Kish there, surprisingly you didn't mention the most intriguing fact about Kutha in that it was the cultic centre of the God of the Underworld Nergal, there is also plenty of Jewish and Islamic tradition which associates Abraham with Kutha, some of it having him born at that place, the modern name being Tell Ibrahim.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I am not sure just how accurate Martins book is but he seems to quote from good sources .

The priestly Koreish tribe of Mecca, to which all the Arabs of the peninsula gave honor and respect, has an interesting traditional history associated with it. Its ancient origination was from one of the most famous cities and regions of Mesopotamia. They were known to have come from Cutha (the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th Ed., vol. 17, p.399b). Cutha was a city located before the days of Alexander the Great a few miles northeast of Babylon. It was one of the earliest priest cities of the world. It was formerly the capital of the ancient kingdom of Sumer which came into being right after the Flood. It was first built by Cush the son of Ham (from whom it was named) and it was a city associated in power and influence with Babylon itself. And note this. It was the same central area from whence the Samaritans who lived in central Palestine came from. That’s right, Muhammed and the Samaritans had the same origin. It means that both of them were a part of The People That History Forgot. The fact that Muhammed had his origin from a priestly tribe that came from the famous Cutha in Mesopotamia is a most significant bit of information. At the time of Muhammed, the city of Cutha had long ago disappeared (it came to an end just after the time of Alexander the Great), but for the Koreish tribe to remember their prestigious priestly origin for the centuries that followed shows that they held their Cutha ancestry in esteem. The word "Koreish" means the same as "Cyrus" in Hebrew and they may have adopted the name in honor of the Persian king because he restored the priesthoods in Mesopotamia to their former prestige and let peoples raise up temples and priesthoods in other areas of the Persian Empire. The Koreish knew they came from the priestly center of Cutha and they said Abraham was born there. This means that at sometime in the past (probably a few centuries before Christ when Cutha was still thriving as a city), some of the priests from that region of Mesopotamia moved into western Arabia and joined forces with the people of Ishmael by marrying into their stock and becoming their priests.

www.askelm.com... Kish is part of Iran and I don't think Martin is referring to them at all ..

a reply to: the2ofusr1

You've compounded your error there by incorrectly confusing the Sumerian Kish with an Iranian toponym, you simply need to check the Sumerian King list were it is noted that the first Antediluvian dynasty was established at Kish, not Kutha, but that's just a minor correction on my part and what you wrote was interesting enough.

So your source is mistaken in conflating the importance of Kutha with that of Kish, archaeological investigations at Kutha show only settlement dating back to the Neo-Babylonian period, it's only genuine importance is as a cultic centre of the death cult of Nergal and Abrahamic religion.

a reply to: dashen
And all this time I thought it was a shrine to Saturn. Well done. S&F.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thanks for that info . Its really a challenge for a layperson such as myself to get it right when we sometimes cam at it from a different place . peace

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Like i said overall it made an interesting case, there are three sources that state Abraham as being from Kutha and three which state the region of Babil in which Kutha is located, these are mainly Islamic but there are also Talmudic associations, it seems to me that the only one's interested in making such connections would have been those of Kuthite descent.

a reply to: Klassified

a reply to: Kantzveldt

i am honored that the theory receives the Klassified and Kantzveldt seals of approval

I had assumed the shrine was clearly Goddess worship because they kiss the siver vagina and the black stone seems to represent some black form being born.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
I had assumed the shrine was clearly Goddess worship because they kiss the siver vagina and the black stone seems to represent some black form being born.

Hermes and Aphrodite were often worshipped tohether.

In many places, temples were consecrated in conjunction with Aphrodite, as in Attica, Arcadia, Crete, Samos and in Magna Graecia. Several ex-votos found in his temples revealed his role as initiator of young adulthood, among them soldiers and hunters, since war and certain forms of hunting were seen as ceremonial initiatory ordeals. This function of Hermes explains why some images in temples and other vessels show him as a teenager. As a patron of the gym and fighting, Hermes had statues in gyms and he was also worshiped in the sanctuary of the Twelve Gods in Olympia, where Greeks celebrated the Olympic Games. His statue was held there on an altar dedicated to him and Apollo together.[102] A temple within the Aventine was consecrated in 495 BC

also,
Hermaphriditus

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Just for the record, the black stone isn't mentioned even once in the Qur'an. It's some false idol crap added by the Hanifs that has nothing to do with actual Islam. Many modern Muslims have differing levels of respect for it, but that's because it's mentioned in customs and traditions.

I guess it would be like the additions of the Easter bunny or Carnival/Mardi Gras to different Christian traditions. Both of them originated in pagan traditions, but they now have pro-Christian interpretations which allow them to still be observed by casual believers (called "Interpretatio Christiana"). I believe some of the Hadith and regional customs have similar pro-Islamic "interprations" that make non-Islamic things seem permissible (like the black stone, zamzam water, etc).

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: dashen

You're quite correct in all of this very well done, what most people don't get is that retrograde Mercury will communicate in terms of constant lies and misinformation, in this aspect relating to the concept of Lucifer as popularly imagined, but the qualifier is that information communicated is always technically neutral and that it is what the individual receiving such makes of it that counts, thus if the false information conforms to the evil desires and expectations of such an individual it will be accepted, a good individual would reject the same as ridiculous, in short Mercury set the Arabs up.

a reply to: Parazurvan

You're totally wrong in all of that, Thoth was the Egyptian Moon God, in ancient Egypt all planetary spiritual aspects barring perhaps Venus were related to Horus as components of his psyche, in Sumeria a similar sort of situation had prevailed were they related to Ninurta though by Babylonian times there are contradictions and later still in Greco-Roman times the planets were individuated.

Thoth was the god of wisdom and magic too. Nobody is wrong over here. Egyptian gods had multiple aspects.

I just know that Muslims don't worship Hermes and the Kaaba might have pagan origins like Christmas and Easter for Christianity but I can assure you, as a Muslim, that what you are saying is very fringe and Hermes is not worshipped.

I am aware that some people connect Enoch with Hermes and Thoth but in Islam Enoch is called Idris and is NOT associated with Hermes/Thoth. For that matter neither does Christianity.

Of course people like you want to make huge leaps that are not true about Islam and don't care what the Quran says.

The Mosque and Kabba have zero to do with Hermes and no Hermetic philosophy is in the Quran.