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Transgender woman wins landmark discrimination case forcing ferry firm to remove the words 'ladies

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posted on May, 27 2016 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Freth

originally posted by: Annee
The only snowflakes I see are those who complain and try to stop the Equal Rights of others.


Equal rights don't exist if you're taking them away from one party and giving them to another.


Is someone taking bathroom rights away from you?

YES! They absolutely are! We have the right when using the bathroom to be assured that a member of the opposite sex is not in the same room. Women are free to deal with their personal matters without a male of the species in the room and men can...well...be men.!


I am a woman. What personal matters that can't be attended to inside a stall?

Public toilet's are not private sanctuaries. If that's what you want, stay home.

Human waste is a health hazard. Everyone needs to eliminate that waste in a toilet that connects to a sewer.

If you gender identify as a woman, you go to the women's toilet. If you gender identify as a man, you go to the man's toilet.

Life goes on.


As you well know...while you can attend to most things in a stall, sometimes a mirror or additional space could be required. You are also well aware that Obama's "ruling" includes bathrooms with showers, saunas, etc. where people typically walk around in various levels of nakedness.

You also know exactly what the problem is from "our side" but you choose to ignore those facts because you can't debate them logically. So you pretend they don't exist. That doesn't help the argument/discussion in any way and only aggravates those you speak with because while a minority group wants special treatment and wants the rest of us to consider their plight, you are ignoring the view and opinions of the ones you want to accept the change.

That won't progress the discussion what-so-ever. And while public bathrooms are not private (as in individual) sanctuaries, you are also aware that their intended use included the segregation of men and women. That was done for a reason and for privacy. What the trans community wants is to take away that privacy by mixing men and women in both restrooms thus defeating the entire reason for there being two to begin with.

If you are going to continue to debate the topic, you might want to consider not only the concerns of the group you are arguing for...but also the group you are affecting. That would be fair and equal.




posted on May, 27 2016 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: redempsh

Yep and pretty soon say 2020 ish, Men will begin declaring that they are Offended by Women who wear Pants.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Other people's genitalia are not your business, nor mine when using public facilities.

That is a fundamental expression of the "right" to privacy.

Not to mention safety.

Not to mention, equal treatment before the laws.

Like it or not, Trans* women are women, medically and legally.

Same for Trans* men.

You can have any opinion, belief, prejudice or "traditional view" you wish, but that is the fact.

So the argument is moot.

Let's make every one of these facilities as safe and as private for all as we can.

And stop this silly need to peek at people's privates.

First of all, and most important...a person born as a male or female remains the sex they were born regardless of surgery, hormone medication, or a wonderful disguise. I've linked to that FACT many times and I believe you already know that.

Secondly...you are 100% correct that another person's genitals are none of anyone else's business. That is why we segregate biological men and women into separate bathrooms. For privacy. That is the ONLY reason there are two rooms.

Finally...your signature which I assume you believe means that sex isn't important is being used incorrectly. The words "in Christ Jesus" means "to Jesus" in the modern vernacular. So while religion, sex, etc. isn't important to Jesus, in our society it is important. To Jesus, it didn't matter that (according to the Bible, etc.) we were created and lived without clothing purposed to cover our naked bodies. Obviously, the society we built and currently live within has decided that while it matters not to Jesus...it matters to us.
edit on 5/27/2016 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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The "view and opinions" of anyone regarding the right to equal treatment before the laws are indeed irrelevant.

Is privacy an issue? Let's change requirements for all public spaces to provide individually private facilities.

Is safety an issue? Let's change requirements for all public spaces to provide facilities with greater safety.

Let's not give the government even more power to harass and invade our lives by requiring genital examination as a legal requirement to use the bathroom.

Let's stop the authoritarian underreach right now.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Freth

originally posted by: Annee
The only snowflakes I see are those who complain and try to stop the Equal Rights of others.


Equal rights don't exist if you're taking them away from one party and giving them to another.


Is someone taking bathroom rights away from you?

YES! They absolutely are! We have the right when using the bathroom to be assured that a member of the opposite sex is not in the same room. Women are free to deal with their personal matters without a male of the species in the room and men can...well...be men.!


I am a woman. What personal matters that can't be attended to inside a stall?

Public toilet's are not private sanctuaries. If that's what you want, stay home.

Human waste is a health hazard. Everyone needs to eliminate that waste in a toilet that connects to a sewer.

If you gender identify as a woman, you go to the women's toilet. If you gender identify as a man, you go to the man's toilet.

Life goes on.


As you well know...while you can attend to most things in a stall, sometimes a mirror or additional space could be required. You are also well aware that Obama's "ruling" includes bathrooms with showers, saunas, etc. where people typically walk around in various levels of nakedness.


Additional space for what? I can't think of one thing.

And I think all mirrors should be placed outside, so bathrooms can be used for one purpose.

And all locker rooms as far as I've seen have at least one private changing room. The last thing a transgender person is going to do is expose themselves.

You have unrealistic fear of a body part.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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Bone Headed Logic says Male and Female should be pushed into the same space regardless of the Majority and how they feel.

Painting everyone with one fell swoop of a brush doesn't make it Acceptible, it only makes the Majority look at these Minorities and laugh at them and how idiotic they appear with their whims and whines and demands on other peoples 'the majority's' sense of Security while doing a very private act involving their genitalia, to which, it's nobodys business partictularily the Minority's.


True story...
edit on 5/27/2016 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: redempsh

Yep and pretty soon say 2020 ish, Men will begin declaring that they are Offended by Women who wear Pants.


That's already been done.

Women won that one. At least here in America.

There are some areas in the world where men buy and carry long skirts with them. If they see a female in pants, they force her to change into one of the skirts they have.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

The issue here as you well know is not sex but gender and gender identity. And both legally and medically, differing gender identities are accepted. That's your first error.

No, that is not why we segregate bathrooms. We segregate bathrooms because the first public facilities were considered inappropriate for women under Victorian sensitivities and thus the bathroom divide began. Men and women have used the same facilities in multiple venues with no problems for years. The fact that you and those you apparently speak for are obsessed with the genitals of others sharing a facility with you that should, both socially and legally be private, and none of your business, that's your issue.

If "unknown genitals" are so terrifying, perhaps you should not ask for "special rights" and have society bend over for your personal peccadilloes, eh? Perhaps you should accept that society has moved on and that you are the one who needs to make other arrangements?

My signature is not part of the discussion. If you don't like what the Bible says or a given scripture, don't read it. Don't try to take the conversation off topic with your personal religious opinions.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Well, don't be surprised if you wake up in 2020 in The Twilight Zone, because that's where this world is headed, if not already there.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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I never cease to be amazed at the tiny minority of people who think they speak for the majority.

Speaking of people doing things to make themselves look silly, LOL.




posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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I'm not sure I understand. She switched her gender because she identifies as the opposite gender, then gets mad when there are gender labels? Didn't she already label herself as a "woman/lady" even though she is offended by those same words?

So what would stop her from being offended by the symbol next time?
edit on 5/27/2016 by Pyrrho because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

whatever you say M'Lady.





posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Again...you are arguing specific situations and not the facts of the topic. It doesn't matter if a problem will happen, or if a particular person is inconvenienced...it matters that the entire purpose of two restrooms is for the separation of biological males and females.

I agree that there are very few reasons other than privacy for there to be two restrooms under normal circumstances. I agree completely. That doesn't change that there are two restrooms, that there have been for centuries and that some people prefer that right. Again...you don't need to argue "why" when the fact is that it simply "is". You can march on Washington and demand that lawmakers change the laws and give your argument. But without changing the long established rules, you are wasting your time with the "ands, ifs and buts". Until either EVERYONE accepts the idea, or a law is changed...nothing changes. Men use the men's room and ladies use the Women's room.

Some facts for you:

"Though the first sex-segregated toilets were established in Paris in the 1700s, regulations requiring that American men and women use separate restrooms got their start in the late 1800s. The first regulation requiring separate toilet facilities for men and women was passed in 1887, when Massachusetts required the establishment of separate privies in businesses. “Wherever male and female persons are employed in the same factory or workshop, a significant number of separate and distinct water-closets, earth-closets, or privies shall be provided for the use of each sex and should be plainly designated,” the law reads. In the next line, mixed use of such facilities is prohibited. Over the course of the next three decades, nearly every state passed its own version of that law."

Is it illegal to use the opposite restroom of your birth sex?

"It is quasi-illegal in most U.S. jurisdictions (as in you can only be arrested if you are told to leave and don't), and in some it is illegal, but even there, it's a case of it's not a problem until it's a problem -- that is, it's not a problem until someone decides to raise a stink. If the women's room is single-seat occupancy, I can't imagine who would raise a stink about it."



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: Gryphon66

whatever you say M'Lady.




Now you're learnin'




posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: Annee

Well, don't be surprised if you wake up in 2020 in The Twilight Zone, because that's where this world is headed, if not already there.


At this point I just hope I'm still alive in 2020. "IT THE YEAR 2020 NOT TOO FRIENDLY.........."

I had to wear dresses to school. It was forced. Fortunately, I'm on the west coast.

Girls where it snowed heavily, now that sucked.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: Pyrrho
I'm not sure I understand. She switched her gender because she identifies as the opposite gender, then gets mad when there are gender labels? Didn't she already label herself as a "woman/lady" even though she is offended by those same words?

So what would stop her from being offended by the symbol next time?


That wasn't the source of the complaint, nor the resolution:

(From the OPs article)




It was the first decision of its kind taken since Jersey introduced gender discrimination laws in 2015 and Ms Bisson has now urged other companies to follow Condor's lead.


So, this complaint is registered under the laws enacted by the people of Jersey, not under someone's personal preferences (as so many are trying desperately to reduce this to).

and



Ms Bisson, 40, a taxi driver from Jersey, said she was humiliated after being told by a staff member over the phone last September that she must use disabled facilities.


She was told that she, as a Trans* person, would hvae to use the Disabled facilities, a direction that the Ferry company admitted was against the law.

Next?



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Annee

Again...you are arguing specific situations and not the facts of the topic. It doesn't matter if a problem will happen, or if a particular person is inconvenienced...it matters that the entire purpose of two restrooms is for the separation of biological males and females.


NO, I don't see a problem.

And I understand the difference between Gender and body parts.

You're the one with the hangup.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

The issue here as you well know is not sex but gender and gender identity. And both legally and medically, differing gender identities are accepted. That's your first error.

No, that is not why we segregate bathrooms. We segregate bathrooms because the first public facilities were considered inappropriate for women under Victorian sensitivities and thus the bathroom divide began. Men and women have used the same facilities in multiple venues with no problems for years. The fact that you and those you apparently speak for are obsessed with the genitals of others sharing a facility with you that should, both socially and legally be private, and none of your business, that's your issue.

If "unknown genitals" are so terrifying, perhaps you should not ask for "special rights" and have society bend over for your personal peccadilloes, eh? Perhaps you should accept that society has moved on and that you are the one who needs to make other arrangements?

My signature is not part of the discussion. If you don't like what the Bible says or a given scripture, don't read it. Don't try to take the conversation off topic with your personal religious opinions.


You're funny! All you are doing is arguing that "this is what I want and therefore it should be". You don't consider the majority (99.7% non-transgender vs .3% transgender). You don't consider the non-transgender arguments, concerns or rights and you are on a quest to simply force others to do as you wish in your representation of all trans-gendered. You argue with and I assume dislike those who don't bend to the will of a micro-minority's demands for special rights and changing the things the rest of us take for granted.

And as I stated to Annee...you not considering the affect upon others of your demands to force a change only .3% max of the population wants is insulting. You may say that we don't think of the trans-gendered...but at the same time, you don't consider the non-trans-gendered...99.7% of every living human being on Earth.

Thus...it is impossible and pointless to attempt to "discuss" with someone whose entire goal is to "force" something upon others.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: Morrad

This, in my opinion...is grandstanding.

I'd gladly cut off a private bit if this person could honestly prove that they REALLY felt that upset by this.


Welcome to the future. It is now.


Its not about a single person.

Its about discrimination of a minority group.




It's petty and frivolous. There is not a single thing on the face of this planet the warped liberal/progressive mind can't find "discriminatory" in one way or another. My door is White, I'm actually subconsciously telling Non-White people they are not welcome in my apartment. The lightsabers on star wars are long and phallic, we need to get rid of them because they tell the world that, through phallic representation, the patriarchy will always rule you no matter what, be it good or bad. White lightbulbs are racist in nature. Because white light bulbs tend to produce brighter light, they are subconsciously telling the world that only White people are capable of illuminating a dark area, be it a dark mind, a dark location, being lost in the dark - it's telling the world that white people are the only things that can help you.

Yes, that's exactly how ridiculous this lawsuit is. And it was intentional. Aren't Transgender individuals allowed to use whichever bathroom they want in the UK anyway? She intentionally made this an issue by calling someone who may not be fully informed and asked a redundant question for 15 minutes of fame.



posted on May, 27 2016 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Since you are often reasonable I'll simplify this. While me and the majority think things are just fine as they are and no formal changes are required, you are saying that formal changes are required. I disagree. If a trans-gendered person uses the same restroom as me...it really doesn't matter to me. To some it does. Those people have had this separation by sex for their entire lives. There is no need for this to change.

That is my position on the matter. The fact that trans people have used the "wrong" bathroom never needed to become a political or social problem. That was done by politics and/or extremists. Its a shame, but now pushed to answer the question...I vote to leave everything as it is.



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