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originally posted by: harvestdog
a reply to: Apollumi
The one's who did the responsible thing like saved up money to buy a older used car because it was in their means will be the one's affected. But hey they are just poor people who can take mass transit I guess.
Mike Allen of Popular Mechanics says that under ideal conditions, a gasoline-ethanol blend is perfectly acceptable. But consumers cannot control those conditions, and they have no way of knowing if the fuel they're buying has been contaminated. All gasoline is susceptible to changes due to weather and moisture content, but ethanol exacerbates this problem. A higher concentration of alcohol in a gas tank (any gas tank -- at the production facilities, the tankers traveling on the highway, the storage tanks at a gas station, your car's reservoir and even the red plastic can sitting on the floor in your garage) means that the alcohol can grab and hold more water than straight gasoline. If the water concentration gets high enough, the alcohol and water will drop out of suspension, turning the fuel into a globby mess that your car's engine can't use. And it can happen at any stage of the transport, storage and usage process -- even getting worse as it goes along. In short, ethanol increases the chances that your car will be damaged trying to process and burn contaminated gasoline.
originally posted by: xuenchen
So lower millage means you still burn just as much gasoline.
Makes sense.
originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: harvestdog
Shouldn't the title be George W Bush declared war on millions of car owners?
originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: harvestdog
From what I have found after researching where and why we have ethanol gas it sounds like any increase would only effect older cars with carbs and also that the states still have the power to decide how much will be added.
Hardly a war on cars, if anything it is trying to make sure we use all of the corn that we subsidize.
Mike Allen of Popular Mechanics says that under ideal conditions, a gasoline-ethanol blend is perfectly acceptable. But consumers cannot control those conditions, and they have no way of knowing if the fuel they're buying has been contaminated.
All gasoline is susceptible to changes due to weather and moisture content, but ethanol exacerbates this problem. A higher concentration of alcohol in a gas tank (any gas tank -- at the production facilities, the tankers traveling on the highway, the storage tanks at a gas station, your car's reservoir and even the red plastic can sitting on the floor in your garage) means that the alcohol can grab and hold more water than straight gasoline. If the water concentration gets high enough, the alcohol and water will drop out of suspension, turning the fuel into a globby mess that your car's engine can't use. And it can happen at any stage of the transport, storage and usage process -- even getting worse as it goes along. In short, ethanol increases the chances that your car will be damaged trying to process and burn contaminated gasoline. Let's assume that most of the time the fuel's environmental conditions aren't seriously compromised, its ethanol stays in suspension, and the gasoline is properly reaching its destination. The ethanol in the fuel is still doing damage. Many older fuel system components weren't designed to resist alcohol's corrosive properties, and as ethanol travels through the system it can cause considerable damage. Gasoline companies sometimes even market specific blends as having "engine cleaning" properties, but if the alcohol in the fuel cleans old deposits from engine components, those deposits won't simply dissolve -- they'll probably just get carried along until they're stuck elsewhere. A 2012 study by Auto Alliance showed that some cars (model years 2001 to 2009) showed internal engine damage as the result of using an ethanol fuel blend. Damage to the valves and valve seats was evident in some of the cars tested. One of the 16 cars in the Auto Alliance study failed emissions compliance standards, which means it emitted more pollution than allowed by the EPA. The study also showed that cars running on E15 take a hit on gas mileage -- so they require more fuel to travel the same distance, which counteracts the benefits of diluting it in the first place. Some organizations are trying to delay the launch of E15 until the public understands how the change will affect them. The EPA says that stickers on gas pumps will adequately communicate what E15 means, and assure users that based on the EPA's information, E15 is safe for most cars. The new blend was expected to make its mass-market debut near the end of 2012; but even now, the infrastructure improvements needed to distribute and sell E15 aren't yet in place. In late 2012, AAA released a study that found 95 percent of drivers still don't know what E15 is, and of course, have no idea how or why it could harm their cars. E15 won't be delayed forever -- the agricultural industry lobby is a powerful force -- so perhaps there's still enough time to educate consumers.
Toyota, who produces the bestselling car in America (the Camry), said: “Moving from E10 to E15 represents a 50% increase in the alcohol content of the fuel compared to what the vehicles were designed to accept…Accordingly, Toyota cannot recommend the use of fuel with greater than E10 (10% ethanol) for Toyota vehicles currently on the road, except for the FFV’s [emphasis added].”
originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: FamCore
Pretty sure street bikes are putting in the premium stuff and burning it at much higher temps. Could he wrong but I think that changes the conversation.
originally posted by: xuenchen
So lower millage means you still burn just as much gasoline.
Makes sense.
originally posted by: DAVID64
Ethanol is not good for engines. Period. But hey, that's ok, right? We're all made of money and can run right out and buy a hybrid. Some seem to have suggested it's our own fault for having an older vehicle or should just replace every damn part and gasket on the thing. How 'bout we stop pumping more crap fuel in our engines? Nah. That'd actually make sense. Can't have that, now can we.
originally posted by: neo96
Yeah well since the advent of of alternative energy less fuel is being consumed.
Which means the less the state makes off the gasoline tax.
So make people buy more of it to offset the revenue shortfall.
Evil.
Evil.
EVIL.
Is that the EPA's fault, or your fault for making a poor purchasing decision?
originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: harvestdog
Actually, my original comment does stand. I can't find any info that says we are going to be forced to buy any gas with increased ethanol. So if you don't want it, don't buy it!
originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Bobaganoosh
So you purchased cars knowing you wouldn't be able to drive them in the future, and now you're upset that that is going to happen in the next couple years? The freedom to pursue happiness also means the freedom to make poor decisions.
originally posted by: Restricted
originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Bobaganoosh
So you purchased cars knowing you wouldn't be able to drive them in the future, and now you're upset that that is going to happen in the next couple years? The freedom to pursue happiness also means the freedom to make poor decisions.
Seriously? Do you live in America?