So being Christian I must be perfect, non-judgemental and love everyone?

a reply to: Klassified

Christianity comes from the word Christ...... and like I said Jesus spoke:

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So since Christians follow Christ what should we believe?

Pretty clear to me...... this means Islam, Hindu, native American religions, and other religions are false because no one comes to God without Jesus's consent.......not mohammad or Ishtar ...etc.....

a reply to: DeathSlayer

So basically everyone needs a label to get to Heaven...

Has nothing to do with the way they treat others or their love of God


Gotcha

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Klassified

Christianity comes from the word Christ...... and like I said Jesus spoke:

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So since Christians follow Christ what should we believe?

Pretty clear to me...... this means Islam, Hindu, native American religions, and other religions are false because no one comes to God without Jesus's consent.......not mohammad or Ishtar ...etc.....

I believe I said as much. The post was not meant to change your heart/mind. It was solely meant to answer your question as best I could without writing a book. Unfortunately, I am not as eloquent as Hitchens or Dawkins.

a reply to: ketsuko

All it takes is love for others and forgiveness, Jesus says so himself. If you forgive those who transgress against you then the Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others then neither will the Father forgive you.

If you read things outside of the words that Jesus himself spoke then you may get another impression, but according to Jesus it's all about love and forgiveness.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DeathSlayer

So basically everyone needs a label to get to Heaven...

Has nothing to do with the way they treat others or their love of God


Gotcha

No not a label......you need Jesus Christ.

a reply to: Klassified

You brought up Christopher Hitchens...... I have watched every youtube series that involved him. Smart guy, rich guy, successful in the eyes of the world, wrote a lot of books, made a lot of speeches .....died of throat cancer. The cancer took his voice before his death.

What a great worldly guy and I have no doubt he is in hell. Why would he be in heaven? He does not believe in God.

Here we have a smart guy, everything one would want.....a NICE guy..... dead at 62 years old and a nice guy..... yet could not go to heaven because he rejected it and God so where do you go? The body goes to the grave but where does the spirit go?

a reply to: DeathSlayer

IF Christians actually followed Jesus i would proudly proclaim that title...

they do not... Most follow Paul, and put their faith in the book... not the man they call God

Its nothing more then a label... or a badge of honor that they love to throw in others faces

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DeathSlayer

IF Christians actually followed Jesus i would proudly proclaim that title...

they do not... Most follow Paul, and put their faith in the book... not the man they call God

Its nothing more then a label... or a badge of honor that they love to throw in others faces

Is it possible that there are Christians out here that do follow Christ?

P.S. If you say yes then you have contradicted yourself.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You brought up Christopher Hitchens...

I did indeed, because he is better at expounding than I am. I could have said Sam Harris, too.

What a great worldly guy and I have no doubt he is in hell. Why would he be in heaven? He does not believe in God.

Per my first post, this is what gets Christians the derision that comes their way. The world does not recognize the authority of the god, nor the book you believe and live by. Neither do other religions/faiths. Quoting it to an unbeliever is like telling them the moral to a fable written by Aesop.

By making the claims Christianity makes, and taking the attitude it projects, it opens itself up to extreme scrutinization, and sets itself up for the highest accountability.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

lol... of course there are

there are plenty of good Christians that actually follow Jesus, but the majority(overwhelming) do not

One follows HIM in action, not in words...

thus accordingly... an Atheist can follow by leading that life... as can those that prefer another religion

HIS ministry was about how one leads their life, not what they choose to believe in

the Christian church(s) are corrupt, and have been from the beginning...

know them by their fruits... which is and always has been rotten to the core

Not full of Love as he would have wanted, but full of judgement and deceit

i've been watching it my entire life... only through the past years of my own study have i realized how deep the issue really goes

a reply to: Klassified

Maybe this is why the world is in the condition it is currently in?

And what is the world going to think when Islam take control?

This is going to happen.....Islam will rule this planet..... in Europe, in the Americas, everywhere.....

And when they start purging the world of other faiths then you can complain about Allah instead of Jesus.

Until then you can use Christians as punching bags......

Being good in order to obtain a reward and choosing to be good as a reward in itself are vastly different. The Abrahamic faiths at their very core are predicated upon control with a dangly carrot to expect a better time when you're dead.
Meanwhile, the guys who tell you how noble poverty is sit in gold castles, fly private jets and bang the congregation.

a reply to: DeathSlayer
You already know I don't pull punches when it comes to Islam. However, I know Christianity MUCH better. I'm learning about Islam, but I'm not about to spend the years learning Islam that I spent on Christianity.

ETA: There's one thing I can say though. Christianity has much better music than Islam or Judaism.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You said a lot in your post, but...
never did you actually define what a Christian is.
Is a Christian someone who has studied extensively? Someone who believes in love? Someone who has been baptized by full immersion?

I'd suggest that a Christian is none of those things, exclusively, though they may very well be all of those things subsequently.
A Christian, primarily, is one who believes that Jesus Christ died for them, to bear the judgment of sin that was due, to bring us to God. 1 Corinthians says:

"I delivered to you first of all that which I also received:

That Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
and that He was buried;
And that He rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures..."

That, in a nutshell, is the gospel - that "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us", "the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring us to God", and that the resurrection is the emphatic exclamation mark, the validation that all of these things are so.

The Christian, then, is one whose trust for salvation, for heaven, for reconciliation with God, is not in their own effort, but in the completed work of Jesus Christ; in life, in death, in resurrection.

This is why the elders in Revelation 5 cry out:

"You are worthy to take the scroll,
and to open its seals;
For you were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth."

...they recognised this. They knew it. They lived it. They trusted in the Lamb to deliver them, to overcome on their behalf, and to reconcile them to God.

That's a Christian.

a reply to: Akragon

Yes, but being Christian is an internal thing. It is a measure taken internally, and internal connection to one's God through one's Savior.

I think that's what galls so many when a Christian talks about their faith. It isn't like so many of the other faiths where faith is easily measured through external shows of faith. So many of the world's faiths depend on outward shows of devotion and the measuring of works to "prove" that one is devout and measures up to "deserve" whatever brand of salvation they preach.

Christianity doesn't do that.

And it isn't about simply declaring yourself to be Christian either. Scripture makes that plain straight from Christ's own mouth. There is something more to it. There is a spiritual angle most people simply seem to miss. IME, the ones who have the spiritual side of things will also have the works down. You can't help yourself; you feel rotten if you don't.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Klassified

You brought up Christopher Hitchens...... I have watched every youtube series that involved him. Smart guy, rich guy, successful in the eyes of the world, wrote a lot of books, made a lot of speeches .....died of throat cancer. The cancer took his voice before his death.

What a great worldly guy and I have no doubt he is in hell. Why would he be in heaven? He does not believe in God.

Here we have a smart guy, everything one would want.....a NICE guy..... dead at 62 years old and a nice guy..... yet could not go to heaven because he rejected it and God so where do you go? The body goes to the grave but where does the spirit go?

Despicable, arrogant, and heartless.

I expect no less from you though. This is just your weekly proselytization of ATS. Such a foul personality for one so close to god. But according to your bible, you're allowed to attack and even kill those who don't like your god. So this is to be expected of all religious fundamentalist death cults. Try not to chop anyone's head off today, okay?

a reply to: ketsuko

I think that's what galls so many when a Christian talks about their faith. It isn't like so many of the other faiths where faith is easily measured through external shows of faith. So many of the world's faiths depend on outward shows of devotion and the measuring of works to "prove" that one is devout and measures up to "deserve" whatever brand of salvation they preach.

Really? Since there are "so many", name some of them. It seems to me, Christianity is all about "outward shows of devotion and the measuring of works to "prove" that one is devout and measures up to "deserve" whatever brand of salvation they preach."

Christianity doesn't do that.

It doesn't? Have you watched any Christian TV lately? Been to a church lately? Watched a Catholic mass? Let me guess...those aren't real Christians.

And it isn't about simply declaring yourself to be Christian either.

It isn't? Then why is someone claiming their Christianity here almost daily?

There is something more to it. There is a spiritual angle most people simply seem to miss.

Just as with any religion of faith. You miss their spiritual angle too, because you're right, and they're the devil's spawn.

In this post Kets, you sound a bit like..."God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector." Or those Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and so on.

"Christians are just more spiritual than other people, we can't help ourselves."

a reply to: Woodcarver

What do you want?

If the tenant of the faith is that none come to the Father except through me, and Hitchens did no believe in either one ... the conclusion is that HItchens turned away.

You seem to think people take some kind of insane glee in saying this. Quite the contrary.

It's the same as saying something like gasoline is flammable. Hitchens insisted in dousing himself in it. Then one day someone lit a match. Hitchens burned to death.

Am I being cruel to write that had that actually happened? No. I am simply repeating what happened.

Hitchens was an adult just like I assume you are. We all know the theology behind the faith. He was capable of examining it and either embracing it or rejecting it. He made his choice just like you are. When you make that choice, you know it implies as does every other person who goes another way. So it does no one any good for you to get upset when a person tells you the implications of that choice from the point of view of the theology. It is what it is, and if it's just now a shocking surprise to you that the theology has that outcome, maybe you ought to re-examine your choices.

Otherwise, you are just nursing a chip.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Akragon

Yes, but being Christian is an internal thing. It is a measure taken internally, and internal connection to one's God through one's Savior.

I think that's what galls so many when a Christian talks about their faith. It isn't like so many of the other faiths where faith is easily measured through external shows of faith. So many of the world's faiths depend on outward shows of devotion and the measuring of works to "prove" that one is devout and measures up to "deserve" whatever brand of salvation they preach.

Christianity doesn't do that.

And it isn't about simply declaring yourself to be Christian either. Scripture makes that plain straight from Christ's own mouth. There is something more to it. There is a spiritual angle most people simply seem to miss. IME, the ones who have the spiritual side of things will also have the works down. You can't help yourself; you feel rotten if you don't.

Unfortunately i wasn't talking about the few, but the many... if not most

Showing up for the sunday sermon does not make one worthy... let alone "saved" from whatever people need to be saved from, be it "hell" or the judgement which comes for us all

Most that proclaim the label "christian" don't even know what the man actually said, and couldn't distinguish the words of Christ from Ghandi... yet will gladly preach hellfire and damnation to any that disagree with their beliefs.

Then theres the "faith alone" crowd... most of which would step over a person in need rather then offer assistance... which is nothing less then poison to the spirit.

I agree most don't get it, but there is a reason for that... which is basically the majority of the bible... and the pastors and ministers that teach it to their blind sheep sleeping in the pews.

Many say, faith comes first... and works will follow... but that simply isn't the case...

IF it was the way things actually work... Christianity would be a completely different religion

One that i would be proud to be a part of as i've said... as opposed to being utterly disgusted with it

As a Christian I am getting more and more upset with the idiots online on the internet who claim to be Christian but yet reject the teachings of the bible

Referring to anyone as an idiot does not seem very christian to me.
Also, I believe you have a twisted ideal of what a christian is. A christian is a follower of Christ.
Not someone who has memorized the bible. Not someone who has been baptized.