Chicago man chokes 8-year-old girl in public bathroom

a reply to: SlapMonkey

So, no stats to prove that passing non-discrimination laws brings more crime to bathrooms. I didn't think so. Maybe rapes might increase by, say... 0.3%? That percentage is nothing to bother about, I hear.

a reply to: kaylaluv

What are you even talking about? That's not what the person who was asking for stats was referencing. I was addressing a particular individual.

Every rape matters. I hope your last sentence was just snarky sarcasm. Official policy and laws should be designed to have a net positive effect on a society as a whole--you know as well as I that it is WAY too early for there to be any stats concerning an increase in anything because of these laws. Asking for them from everyone with whom you may disagree is a logical fallacy, not to mention just an annoying tactic.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

You were claiming that male students in the mixed gender dorms/bathrooms/showers were surveyed and were more likely to rape a girl in those circumstances. Not true. There is a problem with rape in universities, but it goes way beyond bathrooms.

These non-discrimination laws have been in effect for a decade in some states/cities. Plenty of time for statistics.

Does every time a transgender female gets assaulted when forced to go the men's room matter as well?

a reply to: kaylaluv

I said nothing of bathrooms--I was citing general statistics. That is all.

Yes, all times people are assaulted against their will matters. I'm quite certain that I have made that clear more than once.

If you know so much about the statistics, please feel free to supply your own instead of trying to make people present them for you.

I don't care about statistics, I care about ignorant policy and laws that make the possibility of sexual assault, rape, voyeurism, etc., that much easier for those types of people. I could care less what bathroom a transgendered person uses, I'm focused on--consistently focused on--how these laws allow easier access to the prey of sick and twisted people (sexual assaulters, rapists, voyeurs, etc.).

Can I be any more clear on this?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Would you believe groups who work with and advocate for victims of sexual assault?

A coalition of over 200 national, state and local organizations across the U.S. that work with sexual assault and domestic violence survivors are objecting to the justifications given by lawmakers to forbid transgender people from using the bathroom of their choosing.

“Over 200 municipalities and 18 states have nondiscrimination laws protecting transgender people’s access to facilities consistent with the gender they live every day,” according to the coalition. "None of those jurisdictions have [sic] seen a rise in sexual violence or other public safety issues due to nondiscrimination laws.

abcnews.go.com...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
...
The bottom line, for me, is that whatever trans issues are taking place at the moment, bathrooms haven't been exactly a "safe haven" for a while now--for anyone.

True, there have been attacks, including sexual attacks in the past by men in women's bathrooms. But that had happened when people weren't present noticing whether a man enters a woman's restroom. Now with this law, these men who want to assault, molest, or violate women and children have more leeway to do as they please. This law will increase the incidence of such assaults, molestation etc.

If someone is inclined to do wrong, it stands to reason they'd put to use any advantage they could to do wrong and get away with it. I'm not sure if this will or won't increase crime. Your point is certainly valid. The thing that holds me back from support is: how would the law be enforced? Unless there's some sort of security guard at the door of each restroom sorting out who's who, how would anyone be able to promise the law would be followed?

With or without the law in place, I still see public bathrooms as places to exercise caution/stay aware of surroundings. I definitely would NOT let younger/smaller (10 or younger, especially) children use the bathroom unattended.

This whole trans bathroom issue is a pointless, pot-stirring can of worms--on both sides.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
This is the beginning of attacks that will occur by men claiming to be a woman but with only one thought, peek on women and children in the bathroom, or do worse such as this case.

Can't people understand what it means when a law is passed allowing any man to enter women's restrooms will do?

This right here is the key phrase which I can't ignore.
Up to now, this wasn't a problem. Up to now, there was no laws concerning the bathrooms.

Suddenly, this is happening, and those who want new laws are threatening, "This is the beginning of attacks that will occur...if we don't get what we want"

This is terrorism.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Chicago man chokes 8-year-old girl in public bathroom
WATE Published: May 17, 2016, 11:14 am Updated: May 17, 2016, 12:20 pm

CHICAGO (WATE) – The Chicago Sun Times reports that an 8-year-old girl was choked by a man who was in the women’s bathroom.

The girl’s mother was shopping when her daughter went to the restroom alone. The mother heard a scream and ran into the bathroom where she found 33-year-old Reese M. Hartstirn carrying the unconscious little girl into a stall.

He had used his hands to strangle her until she passed out.

Other store patrons assisted the mother in restraining Harstirn until police arrived to arrest him.
...

kron4.com...

Checked the forums and didn't see this story. This is the beginning of attacks that will occur by men claiming to be a woman but with only one thought, peek on women and children in the bathroom, or do worse such as this case.

Can't people understand what it means when a law is passed allowing any man to enter women's restrooms will do?

It gives a free pass to creeps and pedophiles to do as they please with women and children and they will only be arrested after committing their acts.

In this instance the pedophile was thankfully stopped from finishing his attack, but he still strangled this little girl until she passed out. What would have happened if the girl hadn't been able to scream before she passed out?

That's not pointing the fact that studies show transgenders have a higher incidence of violence and assault on women.

Not to mention that this law is only going to make more people turn against the transgender agenda in general. I am not talking about "government run agencies", but people in general.

When people start seeing their mothers, sisters, daughters and sons being victims of this new law more people will turn against the transgender agenda, and we will also unfortunately see more violence against transgenders as well because of this law. it's only natural for a parent to try to protect their children or wife.

Except homie was not dressed like a female, nor was he transsexual, nor was he pretending to be...

This is a perfect example of why the NC law is ridiculous...

originally posted by: SisterDelirium

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
...
The bottom line, for me, is that whatever trans issues are taking place at the moment, bathrooms haven't been exactly a "safe haven" for a while now--for anyone.

True, there have been attacks, including sexual attacks in the past by men in women's bathrooms. But that had happened when people weren't present noticing whether a man enters a woman's restroom. Now with this law, these men who want to assault, molest, or violate women and children have more leeway to do as they please. This law will increase the incidence of such assaults, molestation etc.

If someone is inclined to do wrong, it stands to reason they'd put to use any advantage they could to do wrong and get away with it. I'm not sure if this will or won't increase crime. Your point is certainly valid. The thing that holds me back from support is: how would the law be enforced? Unless there's some sort of security guard at the door of each restroom sorting out who's who, how would anyone be able to promise the law would be followed?

With or without the law in place, I still see public bathrooms as places to exercise caution/stay aware of surroundings. I definitely would NOT let younger/smaller (10 or younger, especially) children use the bathroom unattended.

This whole trans bathroom issue is a pointless, pot-stirring can of worms--on both sides.

Except this law is not providing security and any negative thing a person does to some one in the bathroom is still illegal....


No one is checking johnsons at the door...there are no security guards being added to bathrooms...


Literally the law will not stop ONE SINGLE ACT OF AGGRESSION...Nor will it even come into play if some one is attacked under those insanely unlikely circumstances...

If your being charged with rape, they are throwing out the BS mistermenor "wrong bathroom charge" and focusing on the rape...

Same way if you are speeding and they pull you over and arrest you for murder..they drop the speeding ticket...

The only effect this law will have is on random trans people who mean no harm and want to take a piss....

Clearly a mandatory third unisex facilities in all current public areas is neededreply to: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse


Can't people understand what it means when a law is passed allowing any man to enter women's restrooms will do?

I am pretty sure that someone intent on choking an 8 year old child to unconsciousness in a restaurant restroom would not be concerned with the sign on a bathroom door.

I am also pretty damn sure that crazy comes in both genders?

3 girls charged after teen beaten to death in school bathroom
wnep.com...

Woman Charged With Smothering Child in Manhattan Bathroom - WSJ
www.wsj.com...

Woman charged with drowning puppy to death in airport toilet
abc7.com...

Woman charged in hammer attack on Oakland schoolgirl
Friday when Diame, a frequent school volunteer, allegedly lured the third-grader to a boys' restroom at Lafayette Elementary School.
www.sfgate.com...

Woman charged with sex attack on 6-year-old boy in gas-station bathroom
www.wackbag.com...

Hell....the list of crazy goes on! Lets ban women from women's bathrooms!

And not to point out the obvious, but attacking children is already illegal and no one is arguing to decriminalize it?

Now that I got that logic off my chest...back to lizard brain crazy town debate...

If we start restricting people's movements and rights based on statistics, bias and assumptions, none of us will leave the house. We won't be allowed to.

That's a safe assumption given males have a higher chance of committing assaults and rapes, so there goes the men.
Women are accused of being bad drivers, so none of us will be on the road anymore. According to certain people we are nothing but the salt of the Earth, so may as well be chained up too.
Kids are always on my lawn, so.. may as well lock them up, those whippersnappers.
Let's see, witches perhaps? Homosexuals? How about teachers, they are around kids. Better abolish the education system while we are at it.
Soldiers are more likely to shoot people, as are police.. So no more law enforcement.
Most child molestation is committed by a family member or known friend, well.. remove all kids from homes then. Parents, you're more of a threat to your kids than trans people ever will be. That will keep us safe won't it?

Sound stupid, sarcastic and idiotic, sound like I am using false logic? That would be correct.

It is as logical as me stating that transgender people are inherently a threat and banning them from the bathroom will make anyone safer. Predators are predators. Creeps are creeps. There are creeps that are male, female and everywhere in between. There are even kids that have raped other kids. Excluding people doesn't make anybody safer. Good parenting and education does.

Carrying on like so many of you are gets nobody anywhere. You want to protect your kids right? Be a good parent.
If you are a member of the public and see something wrong, speak up. (I am not talking about crying about a demographic, if you see someone interfering with a child, stop them.)

Banning transgender kids from the bathroom just creates division and a system of "us and them". Sounds familiar doesn't it? It has happened before, this kind of discrimination, based on skin color..

Just in case you didn't realise, sexual predators don't give a crap about the law. They are not going to be stopped by a state banning trans people from bathrooms. They will go in anyway. They still pose just as much of a threat.

In relation to schools, it is really simple to demand a psychological assessment of a student before they are permitted to use a bathroom that does not match their birth gender or physical sex. It is more than likely the school's insurance company would demand something of the sort.

As for public toilets, DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS IN ALONE. As I said, predators do not care about the law. If they are willing to rape a child, do you really think they care about legislation?


TL;DR: Rapists don't care about the law. Transgender people are not inherently predators. If you want to go by statistics, family members and close friends pose more of a threat to kids than trans people do. Predators come in all colors, genders, shapes and sizes. Don't be a fool and think you can protect your kids by demonizing one demographic.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

That's kind of where I'm at in my thinking. It's unlikely to do any good for anyone (straight, trans, or otherwise). The whole issue, again, is just a pot stirring mess.

I'm not keen on the trans-movement, or the majority of movements right or left.

That said, the bathroom debate is silly, fruitless, and only further divides people in a time when an absurd amount of division already exists between countrymen. Whether this law becomes a reality or not, I doubt much will change. Public restrooms will still be kind of strange places with big potential hazards and it's doubtful anyone will really be able to enforce the law 100% without major invasion of privacy.

Again, pointless.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Would you believe groups who work with and advocate for victims of sexual assault?

A coalition of over 200 national, state and local organizations across the U.S. that work with sexual assault and domestic violence survivors are objecting to the justifications given by lawmakers to forbid transgender people from using the bathroom of their choosing.

“Over 200 municipalities and 18 states have nondiscrimination laws protecting transgender people’s access to facilities consistent with the gender they live every day,” according to the coalition. "None of those jurisdictions have [sic] seen a rise in sexual violence or other public safety issues due to nondiscrimination laws.

A few issues, here.

1: How long have they been tracking the data from these supposed "over 200 municipalities and 18 states" that have nondiscrimination laws pertaining to transgender people using the bathroom of their own choice?

2: How long have those laws been in place and how are they worded?

3: You keep acting as if I'm focused on transgendered people being the threat, here--I'm not. I'm concerned ONLY and SPECIFICALLY about laws and policies that blatantly state that it doesn't matter if someone is transgender or not, any sex can use any bathroom.

4: You don't have to agree with me, and that's okay. But, I do ask that you keep your responses focused on what I'm taking about--allowing any sex to use any restroom at any time and how the general population is just supposed to not care because it's in the spirit of protecting the feelings of, at most, 0.3% of our population when at least 6.5% of our population are rapists, with a massive majority of them being serial rapists (they generally do not stop at one time). Then throw in the voyeurs and the sexual assaulters trying to get their rocks off, and we're opening the door willingly and making access to these folks unquestionably okay.

I'm not okay with my wife and daughter needing to be put into that situation--nor my son, who has Asperger's and it would really freak him out to see a woman in the men's restroom. It took us years just to get him comfortable using a public restroom, and he still uses a stall 99% of the time for privacy concerns.

originally posted by: SisterDelirium

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

If someone is inclined to do wrong, it stands to reason they'd put to use any advantage they could to do wrong and get away with it. I'm not sure if this will or won't increase crime. Your point is certainly valid. The thing that holds me back from support is: how would the law be enforced? Unless there's some sort of security guard at the door of each restroom sorting out who's who, how would anyone be able to promise the law would be followed?

Look at it this way: How are no-gun zones enforced? Well, they really aren't, except for after the fact if something terrible happens. And if something terrible happens, the perpetrator would have done it anyhow, because they already broke the law by taking a firearm on the property.

This can be said for all laws, honestly, save for the few enforced by massive security checkpoints. There are laws against beating my wife, but they'd only get enforced after the fact. You can't speed in a vehicle, but you only get a ticket after you have already done it. You get my point, I assume.

But here's the thing--if we remove background checks for gun purchases, criminals will have easier access to guns, even though they already have access to them, but it is much more difficult and expensive. I'm not advocating any type of law that segregates bathrooms, but I am opposing laws/policies that open them up to everyone specifically for the reason that ElectricUniverse mentioned. We should not be doing things that make violating the laws--and in this case, the privacy and innocence of human beings--easier for the criminals to do.

This whole trans bathroom issue is a pointless, pot-stirring can of worms--on both sides.

Agreed. We should just keep things the way that they have been.

a reply to: JoshuaCox
Not all transgymephiles cross dress. There's no way to tell so we just have to accept anyone into s woman's bathroom that's the story it appears and as I've said already this is cultural Marxism at work .
And the Walmart guy was dressed as woman with a wig.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Not all transgymephiles cross dress. There's no way to tell so we just have to accept anyone into s woman's bathroom that's the story it appears and as I've said already this is cultural Marxism at work .
And the Walmart guy was dressed as woman with a wig.

No that defeates the entire purpose

In every telling of the bathroom law it specifically says you must live your life that way, not "if you feel like swapping every other day."


All of that is irrelevant when your not upping security AT ALL.

It is a net that will ONLY catch "innocent" people.

Anyone perving out or assaulting some one would still be charged, no matter the birth sex. No matter if it's a bathroom or not.

Rape, Assault and indecent activity with a minor are far bigger crimes that the "bathroom law". So the smaller charge will be dropped in any real incident.


Meaning it will only be upheld if it is a random person truly just taking a leak.

originally posted by: mindpurge
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Allowing ANY MAN into a womans bathroom without question is a bad, evil, . .

Unless this guy was dressed trans I'd say that stopping transgender from using whatever bathroom they want isn't going to stop sexual assaults.

As long as your state legislature doesn't adopt into law a system of rehabiliating sex offenders or identifying those who cannot be rehabilitated and release them into the public without certifying whether they are potential risks then I'd say your local state legislature is probably more dangerous than the sex offenders themselves.

The legislature at least has more power to change than most sex offenders do.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: eisegesis

How about instead of locking up people for simple drug possession we lock people up who are convicted of crimes like this against children for a long time and in solitary confinement with zero priveledges.

How about we just execute people who rape kids.

a reply to: openminded2011

Several states have proposed this, but the laws have been struck down because they feel the perpetrators would be more likely to just kill the victim. Da fuq? Since when do punishment or laws discourage this sick behavior anyway? If it was beyond a shadow of a doubt....say with video evidence created by the perp...I'm 110% behind the death penalty for pedos. Hell, televise that sh*t.

Death penalty = zero percent recidivism

And on that note: OP- this particular sicko was not transgender, he was just a regular guy sicko who was going to do sicko things no matter what law was in place. Allowing actual transgendered folks to use the restroom of their choice would NOT increase crimes like this. Reality.