End the voting scam

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I'm sorry, I don't see where you quoted me saying it's unimplementable.

I guess the words 'Of course it won't ever happen...' means something different to you.

No, I meant what I said.

'Unimplementable' would mean, to me, that it's a system that couldn't be implemented. It could, it just won't be implemented.

Now that we've clarified our understanding on this....moving on.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
No, I meant what I said.

I know what you said, 'it won't ever happen'. Meaning it will never be implemented.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
No, I meant what I said.

I know what you said, 'it won't ever happen'. Meaning it will never be implemented.

Correct. But not unimplementable. I think we understand one another on this so...

...Moving on?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Correct.

If you feel I am correct when I say it will 'never be implemented' and that it is synonymous with 'it won't happen' I fail to see why you disagree when the opposite of 'implentable' is 'unimplementable'.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Correct.

If you feel I am correct when I say it will 'never be implemented' and that it is synonymous with 'it won't happen' I fail to see why you disagree when the opposite of 'implentable' is 'unimplementable'.

I said it was implementable but would not be implemented. So, i disagree with you that it is unimplementable.

If you''re hung up that what i intended with my words does not mesh with your intent behind the use of the word 'unimplementable,' get over it. It's not substantive to the debate.

We've clarified our precise meanings now. If you can't get past this, just know that I have. I've stated my position and feel good enough about it to leave this debate behind now.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Gotcha. So the change which won't ever happen will somehow improve exit polls which are not reliable anyway and somehow make everyone feel better about their votes.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Gotcha. So the change which won't ever happen will somehow improve exit polls which are not reliable anyway and somehow make everyone feel better about their votes.

I never said it would improve exit polls. I said it would replace them in the sense that exit polls have been historically relied on as accurate reflections of the actual votes cast.

And yes, it would make me feel better and probably most people who have cast a vote on a touchscreen and had their vote flipped...and anyone else lacking faith in the election system. Yes. I am certain i am not in some obscure minority that would feel better being able to verify their vote was counted accurately.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Yes. I am certain i am not in some obscure minority that would feel better being able to verify their vote was counted accurately.

Well then you should be able to get this sailed right through. Think positive, not 'it won't happen'.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Yes. I am certain i am not in some obscure minority that would feel better being able to verify their vote was counted accurately.

Well then you should be able to get this sailed right through. Think positive, not 'it won't happen'.

Sure....because our government works for the benefit of the people by offering us all the transparency we demand.

*heavy snark*

You are taking this in circles, Augustus. Offer up something substantive or I am out. I've made a good case for my position, regardless of the slim-to-none chances a voluntary open voting system has of ever happening.

I don't care if it never happens, I advocate for such a system unless/until a logical, substantive argument is made that is persuasive to the contrary.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Sure....because our government works for the benefit of the people by offering us all the transparency we demand.

Since you feel more people want your system than those who do not why not push for it.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Sure....because our government works for the benefit of the people by offering us all the transparency we demand.

Since you feel more people want your system than those who do not why not push for it.

Finally something substantive. Yes, I should be doing more to work for a trustworthy election process -- whether it's this idea or another idea I can get behind.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Finally something substantive.

This thread had tragically little to work with from the outset.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Finally something substantive.

This thread had tragically little to work with from the outset.

I disagree. I found substance in this thread. Our difference of opinion, on that, is probably just a reflection of our actual contributions.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
I found substance in this thread.

Yeah, this blew me away with its profundity:

Make every single vote public. Yes public.

Without transparency you will never know the real result. And as we all suspect your vote probably does not count and hasn't for a very long time. You can think of every complicated scheme on the face of the earth trying to verify what the real result of our voting was. Making everybody's vote public allows verification and transparency. Groups across the nation could tally the votes and verify the outcome.

And delegates. Pffftttt.. Who needs somebody to tell us "Let the adults vote for you".

originally posted by: Apollumi
Make every single vote public. Yes public.

Without transparency you will never know the real result. And as we all suspect your vote probably does not count and hasn't for a very long time. You can think of every complicated scheme on the face of the earth trying to verify what the real result of our voting was. Making everybody's vote public allows verification and transparency. Groups across the nation could tally the votes and verify the outcome.

And delegates. Pffftttt.. Who needs somebody to tell us "Let the adults vote for you".

Public votes leave people open to retaliation. If you want I can give a more detailed version later, but for now it's late and I'm tired, so we'll leave it at this:
Have a vote system, each person gets a random secret code word attached to their vote. People vote. Later they can look their vote up using that word and ensure that the vote they cast is what's being counted.

This adds transparency while maintaining the secret ballot.

a reply to: Apollumi

men who is't hides in the dark has't ev'rything to feareth, men who is't seeks pow'r shall at each moment seeketh each oth'r.

originally posted by: Aazadan

Public votes leave people open to retaliation. If you want I can give a more detailed version later, but for now it's late and I'm tired, so we'll leave it at this:
Have a vote system, each person gets a random secret code word attached to their vote. People vote. Later they can look their vote up using that word and ensure that the vote they cast is what's being counted.

This adds transparency while maintaining the secret ballot.

I think this is a option. One where the votes could be tallied via an anonymous identifier string quite easily. Port the stuff to a database and sort sort baby. It also allows every citizen to verify their vote because of the same identifier string. If I missed this earlier I do apologize.

I appreciate everybody's stressing how it could be taken advantage of and people's fears have to be taken into consideration but we need transparency. I think your solution provides a good alternative. Each person can verify their own vote also.

As an example, somebody could download the database for a state, county, whatever and run the numbers and tally the votes. Then he could post that portion online and people could go and verify their vote and nobody is the wiser. For instance user ERT111438T voted for Hillary while voter ERT238782F voted for Trump. Even better, take a selfie when you vote with the ID string showing over your shoulder in case you are called a liar. Killer clowns will not be invading your backyard bent on revenge because your a stinking republican or a stinking democrat now and best of all you can call shenanigans.

a reply to: Apollumi

A bloke by the name of Malcom McClure invented a fraud free means of voting. It could be done with mobile phone and if my memory serves me correctly, it involved a form in triplicate. It did not get backing from politicians but its now used to enable sheeple to pay money to vote for their favorite act in xyz whatever show.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Exit polls exist, in part, to help verify the accuracy of the vote. Accuracy is important to me.

No, they don't. They exist to give some indication of the results earlier than people would otherwise have them.