End the voting scam

They tend to do this in Authoritarian states when they have their rigged elections. So that the Police know who to beat the # out of for voting the wrong way after the election.

Failing that radical supporters from both sides will abuse, attack or even kill people on their voting records.

Nah, this is something to be avoided.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

So what good is a partially open system? Particularly if a majority decides to not go the open route.

a reply to: MotherMayEye


Yeah, that hits pretty close to home. You never get to leave the mob and you better never break ranks once indoctrinated into groups like this. From my childhood my father was in cahoots with some major ummmm medicinal purveyors. People broke ranks then they went out for a walk in the woods with company and didn't come back.

What's worse than that, breaking ranks with people that can at any given moment track you down to within a couple feet. Maybe even know the exact moment you sit on the toilet to go number 2. People that hold great sway over whether you get to make a living or not. Lololol,,, people that make you whisper in your own house.

"Winston writes in his diary that his thoughtcrime makes him a dead man, then he hides the book"

So yeah, fear. As I understand it from my vast and varied reading humanity will hit a point where they will no longer fear. They will no longer seek to preserve themselves and will become their brother's keeper. But that is not now and not the intent of this thread. I just know you have to have the courage to step into the light. It's the unknown and scary as hell but once you reach the other side you'll wonder why you spent so much time in the dark.

IMHO of course.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: schuyler

So, make open voting a voluntary act. The more choice the better, IMO.

I would definitely cast an open vote for POTUS and Congress...I might not though for local races. No reason to take anyone's privacy away if they don't want that.

I think a voluntary open vote would be extremely valuable with regard to check & balances.

they have open voting in North Korea....kim has received 100% of the vote every time...I can't think of one good reason to have it

NUMBER ONE: I am suggesting it be a voluntary system.

Number two: It would be far more accurate than exit polling in ensuring accuracy.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So what good is a partially open system? Particularly if a majority decides to not go the open route.

It wouldn't take much participation to be a better reflection of the actual vote than exit polling.

originally posted by: Ohanka
They tend to do this in Authoritarian states when they have their rigged elections. So that the Police know who to beat the # out of for voting the wrong way after the election.

Failing that radical supporters from both sides will abuse, attack or even kill people on their voting records.

Nah, this is something to be avoided.

What, you saying they don't already know how you voted? The people you need to fear that is. Or are you saying they will beat you for trying to expose that they know? How does this argument make sense?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

That is highly subjective. There are too many demographic factors to consider to be able to definitively state you would have an accurate sampling.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So what good is a partially open system? Particularly if a majority decides to not go the open route.

And, BTW, I have skipped voting in the past because I have no confidence in the current election system. I don't have any confidence my vote won't be defiled or hijacked.

So I feel *intimidated* and disenfranchised by the current system enough to not bother voting, at all. I would love to see that my vote actually went to the candidate(s) I actually chose in a voluntary open vote system and I don't see how that disenfranchises or leads to intimidation for you or anyone else.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

That is highly subjective. There are too many demographic factors to consider to be able to definitively state you would have an accurate sampling.

It would still be better than the exit polling methods used. And it wouldn't be difficult to measure the amount of interest people would have in participating in such a system. Again, it wouldn't take much participation to beat out the sampling sizes and reach of demographics exit pollers use.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
...and I don't see how that disenfranchises or leads to intimidation for you or anyone else.

A rabid political supporter for the far right or left learns of your opposing views and begins to rally their fellow supporters to openly or covertly harass you for your voting record.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
It would still be better than the exit polling methods used.

Why the hang up with exit polls? They are notoriously inaccurate due to people not wishing to share who they actually voted for. This is similar to the 'Shy Tory' affect.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
...and I don't see how that disenfranchises or leads to intimidation for you or anyone else.

A rabid political supporter for the far right or left learns of your opposing views and begins to rally their fellow supporters to openly or covertly harass you for your voting record.

Then IDGAF. My choice. I don't fear that. I fear my vote being hijacked and a complete lack of check & balances.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
It would still be better than the exit polling methods used.

Why the hang up with exit polls? They are notoriously inaccurate due to people not wishing to share who they actually voted for. This is similar to the 'Shy Tory' affect.

Right. Exactly. That is my precise point.

Exit polls are not reliable. I believe a voluntary open vote system would be far more reliable.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Then IDGAF. My choice. I don't fear that.

You are not the public at large. Just because you are fine with those types of tactics does not mean everyone else is or should be.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Exit polls are not reliable. I believe a voluntary open vote system would be far more reliable.

Then ignore the exit polls. They do not come out until after the polls are closed anyway. What is the point of getting hung up on them?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Then IDGAF. My choice. I don't fear that.

You are not the public at large. Just because you are fine with those types of tactics does not mean everyone else is or should be.

Great! Then they don't have to volunteer to vote openly.

I don't see why I should have to have a private vote just because you are fine with it. Make it voluntary to be able to verify your vote was counted accurately.

a reply to: Apollumi

Do you honestly think there would not be huge problems with making everyone's vote public knowledge?

Say, oh I don't know, Chicago, or Philly. Miami. Places where politics of the dirtiest are played?

It's unlikely, maybe, that four burly guys are going to be knockin' on your door saying "Vote this way, or else..." No, probably not...

There'd be things like your kids being driven home from school by people they don't know. Dogs/Cats mysteriously getting sick or killed in the backyard...messages can be sent in many ways.

Kinda like Jury intimidation by the mob or gangs.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Great! Then they don't have to volunteer to vote openly.

This is a circular argument. If everyone is not open voting then what is the point of doing it? It does not solve any of your issues.

Another Bernie supporter crying foul. Just maybe Hillary won fair and square ?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Exit polls are not reliable. I believe a voluntary open vote system would be far more reliable.

Then ignore the exit polls. They do not come out until after the polls are closed anyway. What is the point of getting hung up on them?

Exit polls exist, in part, to help verify the accuracy of the vote. Accuracy is important to me.

But, I do largely ignore the exit polls because they don't provide me any comfort with regard to accuracy. I want a system that does help ensure accuracy so I don't feel cheated by cheating politicians. The move away from paper ballots has stolen our checks & balances.

Sure, those reforms have been sold to the people as 'good for us.' But they aren't good for us. So I want to know why they are being sold to us as 'good.'

More accuracy and transparency in our election systems is a good thing for someone as disenfranchised as I am.