Dealing with Other Interstellar Civilizations: From Science Fiction to Reality

a reply to: Erno86

Yeah but how does it go superluminal with out violating special relativity. Theres a way to do it. Just seeing if your vessel has a way of doing it.

A scenario to concider

Humanity's first encounter in space.

The 12 member crew.

* 3 marines. Trained killers who have little to do other then work out in the gym and practice martial arts for "the day" they are needed.

* Medical officer. Nice divorced lady of middle age. Her ex-husband is a workaholic.

* Engineer. Grumpy old bastard who rarely talks. Very good at what he does. Worries about his grand daughter who is beginning a family of her own back home.

* First Science Officer. Excelled in all his university degrees, multidisciplined. Comes from a family of scientific disciplines. Enjoys Physics and devoted to his research.

* Second Science Officer. Biology and botany. Bookworm and computer nerd. His job is to take samples of life.

* The Cook. Comes from a long line of proud traditional chefs.

* Elderly gentleman from a large, very rich samauri family who financed the venture. Insists on wearing traditional robes and swords everywhere. Does not speak unneccessarily, never shows emotion. Never married and childless.

* A Representative of The Church of Rome.

* The Ship's Captain.

* Navigator/helmsman

------------------------

The earth's ship finds itself with another ship to the side at a distance, moving parallel, same speed. It changes colour twice. So we flash a light twice.

The ship then moves in a circle, three loops. Our helmsman does the same and adds a figure eight (he is having fun).

The alien ship stops and does nothing. So do we.

The alien ship moves towards us and then back. We do the same.

The alien ship moves forward to the half way point between the two ships. We reciprocate indicating interest in a meeting.

A sphere leaves the alien ship and stops just clear of our ship's hull. We take no action. The sphere then moves through the hull and arrives at the large common room.

Everyone gathers there to meet the aliens.

The sphere disappears and what remains is perhaps twenty aliens.

With one exception, they are all 2 feet tall. Mature females who look childishly human except for the leathery wings and a long prehensile tail. Bright bronze coloured skin and very large eyes. They all look exactly the same.

The exception is a taller human looking female whose spine extends outward like ribs in reverse giving the impression of a circle as wide as she is tall. Clearly a different specie to the little ones.

The little ones immediately look about and start physically checking people out. They are very forward, fearless, curious and childlike. The odd female simply remains where she is and does nothing except watch.

The little ones show interest only in the people, tugging at clothing emptying pockets and generally behaving like boisterous unruly four year old human children who want to play NOW!

There is a pattern to what is happening. The little ones stop people approaching the larger one by getting in the way and being very distracting. Everytime someone tries to address the larger alien, a little one demands attention.

The little ones also stay floor-bound in spite of having wings. Why? They can be picked up like children and are as light as a feather. Turning down the gravity allows them to move easier and take short flights. A gesture to make them comfortable.

After the first few minutes, it is noticed that certain people are popular and others are not.

The marines are very popular. The little ones are crawling all over the marines, hanging upside down from their biceps and sitting on their shoulders wearing berets.

The engineer has two on his lap.

The captain, helmsman and medical officer are teaching some how to play a simple children's game called pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker's man.

The old samurai has one sitting quietly in his lap. (She insisted even though he stoicly ignores her.)

The First Science Officer has no interest in the aliens, his mind is on the other ship. The little ones show no interest in him yet don't avoid him.

The cook, Second Science Officer and representative of the church are avoided.

After perhaps fifteen minutes of this, the little ones suddenly stop playing and go join the larger one.

One of the little ones leads the medical officer by the hand to join the group. They disappear inside the sphere which returns to the other ship.

The old samauri is sitting with one curled up asleep in his lap, tears trickle down his cheeks.

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First half of an alien encounter. What has happened?

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

FUN way to prank your abductors.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Or come in under the RADAR . . . .

Text

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Erno86

Hey erno,

Do you think its possible the "ufo" that shot down that missile one time at vandenberg, or the instances where they hover over missile installations disrupting the launch systems were actually american craft testing their ability to do such things, and that we tested them out on our own systems first for evaluation before taking the show on the road?

You mention the possible vehicles were surrounded by magnetic field plasma fusion envelop. Why do you believe that it was "fusion plasma" instead of some other type of plasma. Do you think there would be other uses to surrounding a vehicle with plasma?

Do you know if there was a vehicle contained within said plasma? Could you see one physically inside or did you just see a glowing sphere of light?

Why do you feel a "photon drive" is the most likely scenerio for the vehicles propulsion, as opposed to other speculated methodologies proposed for propulsion?

What advantages do you feel a photon drive would be for use in interstellar travel? Do you feel a photon drive is fast enough or can circumvent special relativity s restriction on superluminal travel to be truly useful for getting around the stars in a functional manner?

Have you explored other proposed advanced propulsion concepts, and if so, which ones do you like as possible alternatives to your photon drive? Why do you reject those other propulsion propositions, if you do?

How do you know their weapon systems or capabilities?

How do you know their plasma envelope that contains the vessel is impenetrable?

Are you possitive those foo fighters you saw were non human in origen? Are you certain the foo fighters may have not been actual solid vehicles?

Are you willing to engage in a conversation discussing alternative theories as to what you witnessed, or alternative propulsion and vehicle concepts that may fit better with your onservations.

Finally, if you are in contact with these space entities, you think you can arrange for them to take me on a trip with them, cause I could really use a pick me up these days.

My answer to your first question: No

When I first saw the Foo Fighter...it was in it's hi-power bluish-white light phase --- One minute later...it was in it's low-power fiery reddish-orange phase; that looked like a miniature sun --- That looked so huge, so I figured it could possibly have plenty of electrified [because of the swirling plasma currents] plasma to spew for offensive & defensive OP's; including take-offs and landings.

The plasma simply absorbs radar and hypersonic sound waves.

No...I did not see a vehicle inside the orb, and I don't believe in existence of sentient plasma entities either --- Nor did I search for the Foo's landing spot --- Though I did a on-site investigation of a Foo Fighter landing spot in Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania, USA...two years later after my first UFO sighting in 1976; that featured a burnt grassy area and three tripod landing pod marks in the center.

Starlight photons is a unlimited source of fuel for a photon-driven starship in space. When starlight is sparse or hard to come-by...a finite fuel --- like seawater --- should suffice as fuel for aneutronic fusion plasma generation, between two off-board magnetic shields; that also should protect the starship from the negative beyond the speed of light effects while in the superluminal realm.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Just give a Ouji board to the dumb guy then drag him to an alien plagued family...maybe it would work.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Would you like to know what happens next?

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Look what happened to those who answered yes.
I did it and was a tool,not fun in that regard, WINNING how ever was great.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Hey Navarro, I have a question for you. This may sound very simplistic, but I think it is a very important question to understand if humanity is going to contact an alien civilisation.

The question is:

"Why do you want to make contact with an alien civilisation?"

The question can be rephrased:

"For what purpose do you want to make contact with an alien civilisation?

I think the primary motivation one would have for achieving contact with extraterrestrials is escapism, secondary only to curiosity. If you were satisfied with the universe as you know and experience it, you wouldn't be asking "isn't there more than this?" You can learn a lot about what humanity wants and thinks it needs by considering the things people hope alien contact would bring us. As a whole, people talk of acquisition of technology, an end to disease, and world peace. Individually, people speak of rides on UFOs and visits to alien worlds. Simultaneously, our political, economic and social elites don't speak of such desires because they're quite content with their lifestyles, and by extension the environment which allowed for their elevation to their current status. People such as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter may have actively sought an answer to the UFO question, but they never suggested any motivation beyond simple curiosity, because they're content with their lives, and by extension, with the state of the world.

In the scenario I posted earlier in this thread, I chose to establish contact with extraterrestrials simply because the opportunity had presented itself. As the commander of Earth's first interstellar vessel, on a mission of exploration, I would have no doubt been quite content with my lifestyle, and wouldn't require more. While my response would have been motivated by curiosity, it was also motivated by interpretation of my mission. If my objective is to explore, then I will explore this new phenomenon to the best of my ability and as safely as reasonably possible.

In reality, I feel that I would still be primarily motivated by curiosity, but only because I wouldn't expect extraterrestrials to go out've their way to take me on an interstellar cruise, nor would I expect them to name me Earth's ambassador to their civilization, let alone would I expect them to inform me that they deem me the wisest of all Earth creatures, and as such, they've decided to install me as emperor of Earth. If I had to guess, I'd expect extraterrestrials would soonest be pragmatic in their relations with us. I wouldn't expect them to invest enormous time, resources and effort into reshaping our society for "the better."

If you were an alien, are you certain that you would eliminate all the pathogens hindering the growth of a species which is approaching critical overpopulation, a potential extinction-level-event? If you would, are you sure that all of your alien friends and superiors would agree? Would you prevent humanity from exterminating itself by nuclear holocaust when doing so would require a lifetime of monitoring and intervening? When preventing a species from self-annihilation would also mean allowing an aggressive species to potentially develop to a point in which you're no longer able to control them, and where they may eventually develop to the point of being a threat to your own species? If these humans are willing to make themselves extinct out of anger or by mistake, then what do you suppose they might do to your species, given the opportunity?

We're talking about a species which is very militaristic, prejudiced, bigoted, racist, violent and murderous. They regularly abuse, oppress and kill one another over the color of skin, or for wearing the wrong flag on their shoulder. They're programmed with a strong instinct for fight or flight and fear of the unknown. You're the product of an entirely separate evolutionary process. You're likely more different from them than anything indigenous to their planet, and they have a tendency to hate, fear and attack things different from themselves. Are you sure it's wise to protect them from self-annihilation when they may later choose to annihilate you in return? To protect them from themselves when you may be unable to protect yourself from them later? Or would it be wiser to monitor these dangerous creatures closely, and allow them to progress naturally, if at all?

So, why do I want to make contact with alien civilizations? Curiosity.

a reply to: Navarro

Curiosity. Fair enough.

I am not sure why I feel this way, but I feel that the why of contacting other races is very important. Especially the purpose.

ATS has a lot of people who wish they hadn't met the aliens, and some who want to nevertheless.

I am not widely read on the subject, I grew up on Theodore Sturgeon Sci-fi stories, good old Captain Kirk and recently Admial Adama. However, I do see things clairvoyantly and have met a lot of entities. In all those cases, it was always my preconceptions and the 'why' that decided everything. I have learnt to have no preconceptions nor purposes of my own.

While psychism and scientific thought are worlds apart. I wonder if this is really so when I read of other people's encounters.

Meeting entities may have something in common with meeting an alien civilisation. The consciousnesses and rules are so very different from conventional human thinking.

That scenario I wrote was from my entity point of view. What I tried to do was illustrate how humans can totally mis-read a situation.

I'm not sure what is happening with UFOs and humanity. But I think the biggest trap for humanity is not being able to turn around and walk away from the greatest treasure imaginable.

I think when we can do that, we'll start making progress.

I like your thread Navarro, even as individuals, I think it is important to think about encounters.

While I would choose a shotgun diplomacy for greys, there are others who's sense of values are a study in itself.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Winning?

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

I was a lead element in Desert Shield/Storm .
We won that war.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

No worries, I'm pretty sure they'll need you guys when humans go to the stars.

originally posted by: Erno86

Text

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Erno86

Hey erno,

Do you think its possible the "ufo" that shot down that missile one time at vandenberg, or the instances where they hover over missile installations disrupting the launch systems were actually american craft testing their ability to do such things, and that we tested them out on our own systems first for evaluation before taking the show on the road?

You mention the possible vehicles were surrounded by magnetic field plasma fusion envelop. Why do you believe that it was "fusion plasma" instead of some other type of plasma. Do you think there would be other uses to surrounding a vehicle with plasma?

Do you know if there was a vehicle contained within said plasma? Could you see one physically inside or did you just see a glowing sphere of light?

Why do you feel a "photon drive" is the most likely scenerio for the vehicles propulsion, as opposed to other speculated methodologies proposed for propulsion?

What advantages do you feel a photon drive would be for use in interstellar travel? Do you feel a photon drive is fast enough or can circumvent special relativity s restriction on superluminal travel to be truly useful for getting around the stars in a functional manner?

Have you explored other proposed advanced propulsion concepts, and if so, which ones do you like as possible alternatives to your photon drive? Why do you reject those other propulsion propositions, if you do?

How do you know their weapon systems or capabilities?

How do you know their plasma envelope that contains the vessel is impenetrable?

Are you possitive those foo fighters you saw were non human in origen? Are you certain the foo fighters may have not been actual solid vehicles?

Are you willing to engage in a conversation discussing alternative theories as to what you witnessed, or alternative propulsion and vehicle concepts that may fit better with your onservations.

Finally, if you are in contact with these space entities, you think you can arrange for them to take me on a trip with them, cause I could really use a pick me up these days.

My answer to your first question: No

When I first saw the Foo Fighter...it was in it's hi-power bluish-white light phase --- One minute later...it was in it's low-power fiery reddish-orange phase; that looked like a miniature sun --- That looked so huge, so I figured it could possibly have plenty of electrified [because of the swirling plasma currents] plasma to spew for offensive & defensive OP's; including take-offs and landings.

The plasma simply absorbs radar and hypersonic sound waves.

No...I did not see a vehicle inside the orb, and I don't believe in existence of sentient plasma entities either --- Nor did I search for the Foo's landing spot --- Though I did a on-site investigation of a Foo Fighter landing spot in Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania, USA...two years later after my first UFO sighting in 1976; that featured a burnt grassy area and three tripod landing pod marks in the center.

Starlight photons is a unlimited source of fuel for a photon-driven starship in space. When starlight is sparse or hard to come-by...a finite fuel --- like seawater --- should suffice as fuel for aneutronic fusion plasma generation, between two off-board magnetic shields; that also should protect the starship from the negative beyond the speed of light effects while in the superluminal realm.

sounds like tripod landing gear usually associated with disc craft

originally posted by: Navarro

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Hey Navarro, I have a question for you. This may sound very simplistic, but I think it is a very important question to understand if humanity is going to contact an alien civilisation.

The question is:

"Why do you want to make contact with an alien civilisation?"

The question can be rephrased:

"For what purpose do you want to make contact with an alien civilisation?

I think the primary motivation one would have for achieving contact with extraterrestrials is escapism, secondary only to curiosity. If you were satisfied with the universe as you know and experience it, you wouldn't be asking "isn't there more than this?" You can learn a lot about what humanity wants and thinks it needs by considering the things people hope alien contact would bring us. As a whole, people talk of acquisition of technology, an end to disease, and world peace. Individually, people speak of rides on UFOs and visits to alien worlds. Simultaneously, our political, economic and social elites don't speak of such desires because they're quite content with their lifestyles, and by extension the environment which allowed for their elevation to their current status. People such as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter may have actively sought an answer to the UFO question, but they never suggested any motivation beyond simple curiosity, because they're content with their lives, and by extension, with the state of the world.

In the scenario I posted earlier in this thread, I chose to establish contact with extraterrestrials simply because the opportunity had presented itself. As the commander of Earth's first interstellar vessel, on a mission of exploration, I would have no doubt been quite content with my lifestyle, and wouldn't require more. While my response would have been motivated by curiosity, it was also motivated by interpretation of my mission. If my objective is to explore, then I will explore this new phenomenon to the best of my ability and as safely as reasonably possible.

In reality, I feel that I would still be primarily motivated by curiosity, but only because I wouldn't expect extraterrestrials to go out've their way to take me on an interstellar cruise, nor would I expect them to name me Earth's ambassador to their civilization, let alone would I expect them to inform me that they deem me the wisest of all Earth creatures, and as such, they've decided to install me as emperor of Earth. If I had to guess, I'd expect extraterrestrials would soonest be pragmatic in their relations with us. I wouldn't expect them to invest enormous time, resources and effort into reshaping our society for "the better."

If you were an alien, are you certain that you would eliminate all the pathogens hindering the growth of a species which is approaching critical overpopulation, a potential extinction-level-event? If you would, are you sure that all of your alien friends and superiors would agree? Would you prevent humanity from exterminating itself by nuclear holocaust when doing so would require a lifetime of monitoring and intervening? When preventing a species from self-annihilation would also mean allowing an aggressive species to potentially develop to a point in which you're no longer able to control them, and where they may eventually develop to the point of being a threat to your own species? If these humans are willing to make themselves extinct out of anger or by mistake, then what do you suppose they might do to your species, given the opportunity?

We're talking about a species which is very militaristic, prejudiced, bigoted, racist, violent and murderous. They regularly abuse, oppress and kill one another over the color of skin, or for wearing the wrong flag on their shoulder. They're programmed with a strong instinct for fight or flight and fear of the unknown. You're the product of an entirely separate evolutionary process. You're likely more different from them than anything indigenous to their planet, and they have a tendency to hate, fear and attack things different from themselves. Are you sure it's wise to protect them from self-annihilation when they may later choose to annihilate you in return? To protect them from themselves when you may be unable to protect yourself from them later? Or would it be wiser to monitor these dangerous creatures closely, and allow them to progress naturally, if at all?

So, why do I want to make contact with alien civilizations? Curiosity.

Grigori ? ( and I do imply angels being aliens all along btw or descendants of an ancient civilization)

Images like this evoke such things

I don't know man, you say that the federation didn't have as good a battle technology as Galactica, but that ship and armor and weapons that Janeway gave to them in the last episode of Voyager made them virtually invincible to the Borg,, destroy a full cube with one shot, and the armor was pretty wicked to.