Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: TinfoilTP

You've got it backwards: the issue is that some States want to regulate whose genitals go where.

Trans* folks just want to use the bathrooms that agree with their gender, just like we all do.

This has been happening for years. No one ever knew the difference (and shouldn't ... other people's genitals are not our business.)

I'm not interested in wild parentheticals that have nothing to do with the topic.

No one's rights are being trampled. The point of public restrooms are to relieve excretions.

Sexual predators are not going to be stopped by trying to police the genitals of Trans* citizens.

Let's do something to make bathrooms more safe for everyone! If it's really about safety ... you're on board with that, right?

Let's start by not having laws that embolden predators to step past the sign on the door to turn it into their personal shopping centers.
People will no longer see simple Men's and Women's signs, in their minds they will associate them with signs that read rapists and pedophiles welcome. Transgender's think they get funny looks from people now, they will be getting suspicion and shunned more than ever, not the acceptance they seek.

a reply to: imsoconfused
Seems like a friendly bunch, I imagine most ats basement dwellers would be in their element, if their morning walk was like this. What's the problem here, they arnt taking anyone advantage. If your on holiday in Thailand no one will force you to sleep with anyone, it'll be your personal choice

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MountainLaurel

Exploring confusion over the differences between gender identity, sexual orientation and paraphilias is a necessary and needed conversation that we'll be having for some time to come.

Stating that all Trans* folks are merely cross-dressing sexual predators is another matter entirely.

Taking unpleasant events from our own lives and generalizing them to limit the rights of millions of Americans is yet another matter.

I will hope that all reasonable people can agree on that much.

Agreed it is a necessary conversation, and I sure don't think I started my part of it with calling trans folks cross dressing predators and I sure don't think that . The least of my worries is trans folks using public bathrooms, as I believe they have done all along in most cases without incident.

In terms of events from my personal life, I'd like to think that I capable of discerning between my own experiences and making generalizations of millions of unique people's experiences...however I do think my observations are valid and worth consideration.

I don't think Bathrooms are really the "Heart" of why this issue is bothering a lot of people.

a reply to: Raxoxane

You take a 10 year old into women's bathrooms.....k

originally posted by: Boadicea

There is a clear difference between a transvestite and a transgender person. You don't seem to grasp that little fact.

Au contraire. In fact I quoted one source which specifically stated, based on available data and an ongoing inside joke in the transgender community, that the difference is a couple of years. In other words, autogynephilia is known as a "continuum" and a "progression" which evolves. Yesterday's transvestite is tomorrow's transgender.

I love how straight 'experts' like to tell us how we in the LGBT community live, despite the fact that they are NOT GAY, usually very biased and talking to a tailored audience.

Let me educate you on how we differentiate in the gay community because that final statement I have bolded is false and misleading to the extreme.

Drag Queen (and King) A person (usually male, but can be female too) that dresses up in the opposite gender's clothes. These people are happy with their birth gender and their sexuality is predominantly gay. They dress up for entertainment and are nothing more than a caricature. There is no chance of these people becoming transgender as they are happy with their plumbing, and their sexuality. Nor are they sexual predators on the opposite sex, because they are gay.

Transgender; A person who does not identify with their birth genitalia. Initially they will look like a drag queen / king, but they go through the full journey of breast surgery and genitalia reassigment as well as hormone therapy etc etc. No real threat to females because they want to be one, not with one. (Except in rare cases where they identify as Lesbian or gay even after reassignment, which means their attraction was initially heterosexual)

Transvestite - a Straight person who dresses up in female's clothes. Almost always as some form of sexual kink. These are the ones that cannot be trusted entirely around females because of their obvious sexual interest in them. c

The body of your work, while well written and thought out is not presenting the entire truth unfortunately. Yes it is very true that most transgender folk do not make the entire genitalia switch. There is also another very big reason for that; Suicide rates. Once you've given it the chop, you can't get it back again. And unfortunately more than there should be transgender people realise they wish they had left things alone after it is too late.

Autogynephyllia is actually quite easily explained away. The claim you make is that most transgender people have felt arousal by female genitalia (2/3 I believe you quoted) Well guess what? Most gay people, probably at least 2/3, have felt attraction to a female, and even had sexual relations with one at some point in their life. The same applies to the heterosexual community. While I dare not to put a number on it, more that are prepared to admit it have at least felt sexual attraction to the same gender on the straight side of the fence. Sexuality is not a three pigeon holed Straight / Bi / Gay affair, it is a scale of magnitude of attraction instead. Therefore the same attraction law is going to apply to a transgender person. Because sexuality and gender identity are 2 distinctly separate issues.

So at this point the fearmongering over autogynephylia starts to become unravelled. Yes, most transexuals will admit to attraction to the female gender because of the greyness of sexuality itself. None of this however translates directly into a sexual predator in the female bathroom. Transvestites are more likely to be the problem there to be completely honest. And I've spoken to a few, what runs through their minds is too dirty for this thread......

a reply to: Raxoxane

Picture any given beach.Many many grains of sand,ya? Well that's the amount of effs i don't give for your rude and obnoxious opinion.We live in South Africa.

Agreed, why shouldn't a parent be concerned for their children?

Thank you OP for the excellent post, it managed to explain something we have wondered about for a long time.

Before I let loose, I just want to make clear that I support anyone who is truly transgender and managed to get somewhere in their life where they are happy. I'm on your side and I think it's great.

Anyway. We have a pub we sometimes go to that has a lot of transgenders, transvestites, well men that look like women [sort of] frequenting one day a week.

Fine. You get the lot, from those you can't tell at all that they are trans, to clearly men who do their best to look like a woman in a tasteful, feminine way...and then you get the...

....'Bounty Ladies' as we call them.

Here in Britain there was and advert for 'Bounty' kitchen paper, headed by bearded, blokey guys who were dressed as housewives.

Those in the pub that always get me, are the kind that look like a hairy builder, dressed in kind of sluttish attire, their legs hairy and bend, their wigs askew, their make up from around 1974, walking like a geezer, grabbing a tiny handbag as if it were a spanner.

Oh how we have wondered about them. They are impersonations rather than expressions.

Now I know. Now I know.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Boadicea

I dunno even know how to pronounce that word.

People understand that trannys have been around forever using the bathroom they feel comfortable using all this time, right?

Wait, this thread is about transgender bathroom usage right? The thread is long and I doubt I'll read all 8 pages of the OP.

Then why bother replying...

a reply to: Boadicea

How many women and children have to be hurt before it's a problem for her. One is too many for me.... and for those hurt. I'm not waiting for an "epidemic" of violence to result before calling foul.

How many women or children have been assaulted by either transgendered people or transvestites? Further, where are these assaults happening, public restrooms?

The truth of the matter is that transgendered people have been using the bathrooms that correlate with the gender they identify with since there have been public bathrooms and souls brave enough to attempt to live outside of the lines societies draw.

What's going to happen to this person if they go into the women's room?


Predators don't care about laws. Laws don't make anyone safer they only define what is punishable. Isn't it funny how we didn't need bathroom laws until parents wanted to protect their trans kids in school?

Incidentally, trans kids in middle and high school are statistically highest in being assaulted in bathrooms/locker rooms... because their schools forced them to use the bathroom according to their birth sex, but I guess those children don't matter.

a reply to: Brett83

In my country it is not an unusual thing. We live in the most violent society in the world-and it is also the rape capital.Little boys can be raped just like girls.I don't take chances with my children's safety.If you get raped here you have a massive chance of getting
Aids.We are also one of the AIDS capitals of the world.
If you have a problem with that-Refer to my reply to thinline at the bottom of first page,same goes for you.

a reply to: Kali74

Has anyone questioned that person when he went to the mens room? Would anyone question him? Just like the pictures of the pretty little trans kids. nobody would question them when they look exactly like the sex they are trying to be. So regardless of what anyone says, unless they were just looking for attention, they could use the restroom they looked like they should be using. I don't know if you are aware of this, but you only have bathroom monitors in some High schools and a few high end nightclubs. In the nightclubs, you need to tip the dude for spraying you with Polo and handing you a towel.

a reply to: network dude

Previous to the bathroom laws this was true, now we have bathroom monitors everywhere these laws exist, not to mention if a transgender person gets caught going into the bathroom they identify as rather than their birth gender... they are criminalized and fined.

a reply to: pheonix358

Valuable Wordpress blog information?

Ha ha ha! Those words never go together but since the blogs fit homophobes thinking it becomes valuable.

Keep fear mongerinf yourselves to sleep to make ya feel better and continue to embrace the ignorance!

a reply to: Boadicea

Even if someone could prove every single word and thought wrong, I would be satisfied knowing that I helped bring truth to light

I'm not sure how you can claim bringing truth to anything when you have been proven wrong. What you basically just said is that you don't care if your wrong and are perfectly content in spreading BS and ill informed opinions based on fear and hatred. I'm not sure how anyone can take anything you have said as serious after that statement. You pretty much discredited yourself with that line.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: network dude

Previous to the bathroom laws this was true, now we have bathroom monitors everywhere these laws exist, not to mention if a transgender person gets caught going into the bathroom they identify as rather than their birth gender... they are criminalized and fined.

Who is going to catch them? again, there are no monitors. there are no cameras under the seats.

Hear, hear.

Listen up.

This is reality people. The world is full of perversions and perverts. People that will harm you sexually.

That is a fact.

How do we know? Rapes happen all the time.

The enforcement of this statement by Obama. It isn't even a law as far as I know. The passing of it, will make the abuse of people much easier in certain circumstances.

There are three positions here.

1. We don't care about the perverts (they really aren't anyway) force this upon everyone.

2. We are the perverts, and you are wrong, you are perverted for thinking that way. Shame on you.

3. We will do what we want with you, your wife, and your children. And if you protest you will be known as a bigot and we will rape you and everyone you know, and YOU will be condemned for our acts against you.

You humankind have walked into a world where God truly does not exist. Only atheism and evolution.

A world where you are an animal. You have been programmed to believe it. And now, when you are treated by an animal by sexual perverts, don't wonder why your normal decency wonders why. You beloved everything else they told you.

Religions commit much wrong. There is no doubt. All religions are filthy. But they will be considered a blessing upon humanity, when atheism, and the agenda it has for humankind is allowed.

a reply to: network dude

Stories are cropping up now of people, usually women, being followed or asked if they're women as they're trying to go into a bathroom. One woman has been arrested for trying to use the women's room. What about trans kids in schools and trans people at their jobs... where birth gender is known by persons of authority?

I love how many people use the word "hatred" or "bigot" over and over and over and over, as a response to an opposing opinion, or even factual data.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

You've still got it backwards. The issue the laws that want to turn the State into molesters, verifying the "birth genital status" of folks who just want to use the bathroom.

Predators are not going to be stopped by a bathroom sign and they don't hide in a dress. The absurdity of this argument is more than apparent. I'm sure in your world you think that everyone looks at other people with suspicion and shunning, but in the real world, most people are not obsessed with the genitals of the person using the facilities with them.

This is a manufactured crisis.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: TinfoilTP

You've still got it backwards. The issue the laws that want to turn the State into molesters, verifying the "birth genital status" of folks who just want to use the bathroom.

Predators are not going to be stopped by a bathroom sign and they don't hide in a dress. The absurdity of this argument is more than apparent. I'm sure in your world you think that everyone looks at other people with suspicion and shunning, but in the real world, most people are not obsessed with the genitals of the person using the facilities with them.

This is a manufactured crisis.

Yes. And it always shows the PTB where you stand. Those who stand up for it, or those who actually think and have instincts and morality.

Everyone is being divided.