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MH17 crash: Victims' families sue Putin and Russia

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posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: username74
a reply to: paraphi

oh you mean these guys .
guess what its BELLNGCAT
ROFL

arstechnica.com...


Bellingcat and the White Helmets work for the same gang. Their job is deception.




posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Salander

And you put a lot of stock in someone that no one has been able to prove exists that made claims that aren't backed up by actual data, simply because it doesn't agree with anything official.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

eh?
i don't follow..
who is not existing?



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: username74

Carlos, the alleged air traffic controller that claimed the aircraft was deliberately rerouted and ordered to descend so they could shoot it down. There's no evidence he ever existed and evidence that he didn't.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

oh Jose Carlos Barrios Sanchez.
well we will never know the truth about that, its disinfo soup.
he existed because he was detained at the airport in Bucharest in 2013 for duping eight Romanian citizens into handing over between 70 and 130 euros each under the pretext of gaining employment with an airline.
maybe a criminal or a conman or a spook. probably a charming combination of the three.

"It turned out that before that he was placed on the wanted list in Spain and then he was suspected of forgery and misappropriation of property. Serving as the chairman of an apartment cooperative association near Madrid, Sanchez appropriated thousands of euros that belonged to the association. A court in Madrid sentenced him to six months in prison, so the Romanian authorities extradited Sanchez to his homeland."

mesraprod.ru...

dnd.com.pk...

www.voltairenet.org...

www.foxnews.com...

good luck.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: username74

He may be a real person, or someone is pretending to be him, but his role in events is questionable at best. He's allegedly been involved in several major events over the years that no one can prove.

To work ATC in Ukraine, you have to be a Ukrainian citizen. He's a Spanish national, and there's no record at the Spanish embassy of any Spanish national getting their citizenship or work Visa for the Ukraine. Of course the people that believe in him just say that's more proof of a coverup.
edit on 12/2/2018 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58


"To work ATC in Ukraine, you have to be a Ukrainian citizen. He's a Spanish national, and there's no record at the Spanish embassy of any Spanish national getting their citizenship or work Visa for the Ukraine. Of course the people that believe in him just say that's more proof of a coverup"

likely a spook. or maybe an asset.
if so fake passport is no problem.
and the spanish embassy... well, spains in nato.
at the time on twitter he was worried for his life.
if his story was true i find it highly unlikely he would not be having a dirtnap in a ukranian ditch.
so it could be a cover or a substitute.
cointelpro
interestingly the fighter pilot shot himself a few weeks after the incident.
but that would be the same sort of story though understandable if he thought he was hitting putins plane.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: username74

And yet, the data sent directly from the aircraft transponder, to multiple privately owned third party websites directly contradicts his story. So are we going down the hole of them somehow faking that data too?

This is why I love these coverup claims. On the one hand, whoever did it is so incredibly competent that they manage to cover all the bases and get fake data out within an hour. But on the other, they screwed up so completely that they couldn't even hide that it was not a SAM that did it and left evidence for us to uncover using almost nothing but social media.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: username74
likely a spook. or maybe an asset.


If that's the angle, then there's some evidence that he was paid $48K by the Russians, although did end up in a Spanish jail.

Jose Carlos Barrios Sanchez article



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

well, yeah thats how its spun, because a little further down that page we get

"Ultimately, reporters made contact with someone credibly claiming to be Sanchez (aka Carlos) -- and who spun fresh provocative claims about the bizarre role he played in the Ukraine conflict.
He avoided meeting the reporters but exchanged emails and WhatsApp messages with them.
Sanchez admitted that he had never worked as an air-traffic controller and that while he has been to Ukraine, he was not there at the time that MH17 was shot down.
He claimed that he had been "told what I had to write" on his Twitter account and said that he had received "a lot of money, very large sums, from transfers that came from Russia."
Sanchez stated he had audio and video files confirming his claims but told reporters he did not need to respond to their questions "for free" and that they should reach an unspecified "agreement" with him to proceed. The reporters refused. He never provided the material."

so it could equally be a set up to frame the russians
what you could take from that is, if his account were accurate, then the attack on the plane either was either preplanned or that there was a military presence in the tower coercing or instructing him.
could also be that it was a way to launder his ill-gotten gains because if its not true no ones then going to come after him
could be original carlos is feeding grass in the ukraine and this is the doppelganger
some people know what happened because if he was using twitter from a phone or computer there will be a trail.
i bet bezos could tell you.
and u.s. sigint


edit on 2-12-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: username74

So an anonymous person on the internet, sending anonymous messages to journalists is proof that he exists and has the smoking gun? And if the money from Russia was supposed to be to get access to him and his data, where is it?
edit on 12/2/2018 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

"
This is why I love these coverup claims. On the one hand, whoever did it is so incredibly competent that they manage to cover all the bases and get fake data out within an hour. But on the other, they screwed up so completely that they couldn't even hide that it was not a SAM that did it and left evidence for us to uncover using almost nothing but social media. "

i dont know if you meant that statement as i read it but that is a most concise synopsis of the portrayal of these international hit jobs.


and to illustrate just how #ed up this all is, theres this
"The deputy of the parliament of the Netherlands Pieter Omtzigt (CDA) reported that during the closed hearings concerning the investigation of Malaysian Boeing MH17 crash in Donbass, there was declared that only Ukraiane could had shot down the plane.

On January 22 this year in the parliament of the Netherlands there have taken place the closed hearings on investigation of the causes of MH17 crash. The Dutch deputies were addressed by the head of the special commission which is engaged in supervision of intelligence agencies and Defense Ministries, so-called CTIVD (the supervisor of secret services) Harm Brouwer.

www.voltairenet.org...

www.rt.com...

www.voltairenet.org...



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

well, exactly.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

my personal reflection on this is that all these national, international and military bodies do not so much care whether we (citizens) hold one opinion or the other,
only that between them, they create an informational environment such that the citizens just have no idea whatsoever what is going on from one day to the next.
total information warfare.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: username74

But that's just it.... either they're amazingly competent to pull these events off so well, or they aren't. People would have you believe that they could alter data sent from the transponder to cover up that Kiev deliberately routed them over the area (despite there being something like 14 other aircraft over that area that day alone), but apparently couldn't get their hands on a surface to air missile system, so shot it down with some elaborate air to air ploy, then lied about it being a SAM. So they could get their hands on a Russian built fighter to use, but not a Russian built SAM system?



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

where is this transponder data link anyway?
flight tracker 24?

so theres that
acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com...:MH17_Flightradar24_database.png

and this
"Something weird happens at 13:20:47 UTC (1:48 on tape): MH17 jumps 5 km north from where it was first seen at 13:20:42. The radar screen shows some data that should come from the transponder. I do not know if it received fresh values or is just remembering outdated data. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:45, 13 August 2014 (UTC)"

acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com...:Crash_of_Malaysia_Airlines_flight_MH17/Radar_data


edit on 2-12-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)


referencing this article www.rt.com...
edit on 2-12-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 05:15 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

just more circles.
Within 24 hours after the downing it was known WHO shot the plane down. It was also decided by Kiev and the controlling CIA that this was NEVER to be divulged
So these poor Dutch police officers who have NO aeronautical forensic experience nor any experience in war munitions are required to present a half baked story based on telephone calls and social media.

A few years back Kuala Lumpur held an International War Crimes Tribunal using Nuremberg laws and tried and found Bush and Cohorts guilty of war crimes.
www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

Russia is undermining the dollar as the reserve currency by de-dollarizing which is the reason of all the sanctions - nothing to do with Crimea.
Then we learn that there is a clearing house in Kuala Lumpur for foreign curreny other than the dollar.
So in a little over one year Malaysia loses 2 Airliners.
Is that a coincidence?
One of the organizers of the KL war crimes tribunal was the former PM of Malaysia, who just happens to also be the founder of Malaysia Airlines.

edit on 2-12-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)


then we have this guy on the plane "Glenn Thomas was also the coordinator of the media and was involved in the investigations that were bringing to light the issue of trial operations of Ebola virus in the laboratory of biological weapons at the hospital in Kenema. Now that this workshop was closed by order of the Government of Sierra Leone, more details emerge about the interests that hidden behind its management."
themillenniumreport.com...

which is a bit like "Maybe a huge coincidence that has provided an enormous windfall to the Rothschilds who love hoarding money irrespective who may be hurt. The disappearance of four members of a patent semiconductor traveling on Malaysia Airlines MH370 makes the famous billionaire Jacob Rothschild as the sole owner of the important patent."
which i havent looked deeply into but.....
there is also the issue of the same type transponder that didnt work on mh370, being used as evidence for mh17s untimely end location and as we have seen in previous reference.

the whole affair reeks of deceit and maybe there are one or more different plays happening on the same stage.
kabuki shadow theatre.
.
edit on 2-12-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2018 by username74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: username74

Flightradar24, Flightaware, Radarbox to name three all tracked it independent of each other. The "weird data" is because some sites had better coverage in some areas. European based sites have better coverage in Europe, North American sites better coverage in the Americas.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: username74

Sometimes, as much as we want to believe in a deep dark conspiracy, things really are a coincidence. Losing two aircraft that close together really isn't that much of a stretch. If you study accident trends you'll occasionally see clusters. When Pan Am was operating, at one point they lost 3 707s in less than a year, all to different causes.

I get that there are things that are hidden and there are things done that are extremely repulsive. But at the same time, there really are stupid accidents, and coincidences. Not everything turns out to be some evil mastermind pulling strings. And all the evidence is pointing to this being a stupid accident involving mistaken identity of the aircraft.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 03:16 AM
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originally posted by: username74
Russia is undermining the dollar as the reserve currency by de-dollarizing which is the reason of all the sanctions - nothing to do with Crimea.


Russia's economy is the size of South Korea's, so they don't really have the clout to undermine the dollar, noting that the Russian ruble is not very stable and has been greatly impacted by sanctioned levied since Russia annexed Crimea.




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